Ayala's Stone Heart Ppm Nerf

[Luciferus]

you dont have execute phase in dummie where massacre + ring shines

Dude, massacre it's over Frothing Berserker only when you have a loooong execute phase.
In mostly "normal" fights massacre it's far below Frothing Berserker. Just thing that u can have every 15 secs or less a 6 sec 15% boost damage windows in that you can put at least 2 ranging blow, 1 rampage.
Before 7.1.5 and ring ppm nerf you were right, not now.

[RoKPaNda]

If you think the ring is bad now you obviously don't have it or don't know how to do adequate testing.

[orgonutil]

Dude, massacre it's over Frothing Berserker only when you have a loooong execute phase.
In mostly "normal" fights massacre it's far below Frothing Berserker. Just thing that u can have every 15 secs or less a 6 sec 15% boost damage windows in that you can put at least 2 ranging blow, 1 rampage.
Before 7.1.5 and ring ppm nerf you were right, not now.

Did I say the opposite at some point? Just quoted to say that you cant compare a result in dummies becouse in dummies you have zero gain from massacre, I never said that massacre is better than frothing berserker

[Luciferus]

If you think the ring is bad now you obviously don't have it or don't know how to do adequate testing.

Actualy i have a legendary neck Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus 940, the ring Ayala's Stone Heart 940, the cloack Kazzalax, Fujieda's Fury 910 and the waist Naj'entus's Vertebrae 910 that's works pretty good in skorpiron fight (it synergises very well with Wrecking Ball talent.)
just need only the helm right now to have all "Bis"

And, yes, I did a proper test, as i wrote before, (simulation craft and dummy session 3 minutes and 5 minutes each) for each of these legendaries.

[InfiniteWeird]

I believe the ring does indeed need a bit of a buff to bring it back in line with the cloak. I play Fury and I'm lucky enough to have acquired the angry hat, the execute ring and the cloak, and I will say this, I prefer the play style of the massacre build with the ring over the frothing build with the cloak. It makes our rotation feel far more smooth and our execute phase what I believe it should feel like.

Here are some examples of my simdps using the current build of simcraft with the default apl.

Angry hat (940)+ Cloak (940) + 4PC 54 traits

• DPS: 834975.1
• DPS(e): 834975.1
• DPS Error: 188.2 / 0.023%
• DPS Range: 118347.4 / 14.2%
• DPR: 69886.1

Angry hat (940) + Ring (910) + 4PC 54 traits

• DPS: 795730.7
• DPS(e): 795730.7
• DPS Error: 162.8 / 0.020%
• DPS Range: 103008.6 / 12.9%
• DPR: 69822.2

Note that I'm too new on the forum to post links so I had to just copy paste from simcraft.

As you can see there is a pretty sizable gap between the two setups now. Granted a default settings patchwork sim is far from practical application. I've found the only instance where the hat + ring will outshine the hat + cloak is longer fights. For example I ran the hat + ring on heroic gul'dan week 1 and ran the hat + cloak on heroic gul'dan week 2 and on that fight given it has a somewhat long execute phase I did around 35k more dps using the hat + ring. However that could also be attributed to differences in our kills between the two weeks. Anyways, just my two cents.

Edit:

Realized after posting this I forgot to sim out the cloak vs ring with the same talent build (cookie cutter froth). Even with the same talent build the ring is simming substantially lower than the cloak (Around 32k difference between the two).

Overall I think increasing the PPM on the ring would bring it in line with the cloak and would also make massacre more in line with frothing.

Edit 2!:

Okay so I also did some sims of both using the cookie cutter massacre build. Which put the cloak on top of the ring again but only by around 12k. No more edits I promise!

[Mitsue]

Honestly if you choose to use a NH ring over Ayala's in any scenario that doesn't involve you having Angry Hat / Cloak, then good luck to you. There are plenty of posts and evidence suggesting Ayala's is still more powerful than a standard ring (including in this thread). And not so called 'evidence' that is 'I hit a dummy 3 or 4 times and I did less damage so it must be useless now'.

[Luciferus]

I believe the ring does indeed need a bit of a buff to bring it back in line with the cloak. I play Fury and I'm lucky enough to have acquired the angry hat, the execute ring and the cloak, and I will say this, I prefer the play style of the massacre build with the ring over the frothing build with the cloak. It makes our rotation feel far more smooth and our execute phase what I believe it should feel like.

Here are some examples of my simdps using the current build of simcraft with the default apl.

Angry hat (940)+ Cloak (940) + 4PC 54 traits

• DPS: 834975.1
• DPS(e): 834975.1
• DPS Error: 188.2 / 0.023%
• DPS Range: 118347.4 / 14.2%
• DPR: 69886.1

Angry hat (940) + Ring (910) + 4PC 54 traits

• DPS: 795730.7
• DPS(e): 795730.7
• DPS Error: 162.8 / 0.020%
• DPS Range: 103008.6 / 12.9%
• DPR: 69822.2

Note that I'm too new on the forum to post links so I had to just copy paste from simcraft.

As you can see there is a pretty sizable gap between the two setups now. Granted a default settings patchwork sim is far from practical application. I've found the only instance where the hat + ring will outshine the hat + cloak is longer fights. For example I ran the hat + ring on heroic gul'dan week 1 and ran the hat + cloak on heroic gul'dan week 2 and on that fight given it has a somewhat long execute phase I did around 35k more dps using the hat + ring. However that could also be attributed to differences in our kills between the two weeks. Anyways, just my two cents.

Edit:

Realized after posting this I forgot to sim out the cloak vs ring with the same talent build (cookie cutter froth). Even with the same talent build the ring is simming substantially lower than the cloak (Around 32k difference between the two).

Overall I think increasing the PPM on the ring would bring it in line with the cloak and would also make massacre more in line with frothing.

Edit 2!:

Okay so I also did some sims of both using the cookie cutter massacre build. Which put the cloak on top of the ring again but only by around 12k. No more edits I promise!

finally a nice reasoning based on facts and evidence.
I agree on everything what you wrote.The ring needs, at least talking fury's spec, a slight increase in ppm for a competitive return,I would say from 1.8 (right now) to 2.3 (0.5 more).

[Deleted]

mmm
But now i've to decide between ring and legenday belt....and in NH i think that at most of fight belt is over it....
And in single target i'm not sure that ring is better because it give no strength

[Roiids]

Just got this to drop last night and im pissed. It was my second lego... really needed that hat.

[Archimtiros]

Okay so I also did some sims of both using the cookie cutter massacre build. Which put the cloak on top of the ring again but only by around 12k. No more edits I promise!

You also left out a few other factors:

1. You're comparing a 940 Cloak to a 910 Ring.

• While ilvl doesn't affect the Legendary bonus, it certainly affects the amount of stats the legendary provides. While this isn't huge by any means, it does have an impact.

2. What ring/cloak were being replaced by the legendaries, and thus which ring/cloak were being used with alternate setups.

• Keep in mind that this is more impactful as you might think, there will obviously be a bigger gain in trading a 870 cape->940 legendary vs swapping a 880 collapsing futures -> 910 Ayala's.

3. How this impacts your tier setup.

• Again, keep in mind that using the Legendary Cloak means you give up the Tier Cloak, forcing you to use the Tier Chest or Legs to maintain 4p bonus (or both if also using the Angry Hat). This culminates in a significant increase in Crit (worst stat) at the expense of others and limits the gain of the Cloak. At best using Ayala's means you can't use Collapsing Futures, which isn't nearly as impactful.

[Softbottom]

Im running into issues in terms of what to use. I play fury. I have 940 ayalas, cloak and kjs burning wish. No angry hat yet unfortunately. Im around 890 ilvl. I use kjs and ayalas with massacre. I have heroic tier cape already which is nice. Once i get dos and cof trinks i dont know whether to keep kjs or swap to cloak. According to sims dos and kjs sim 1 and 2 with cof in a close 3rd. Input anyone?