How is BrM in BGs?

[Deleted]

While i really like playing with my WW and MW in PvP, i'm now curious how is Brm performing in PvP? I have in mind BGs only for a tank spec and i'm only interesting about how good is BrM survivability. I don't care much about dmg, i have WW for that part. I just want to do a few BGs with a tank spec for fun and BrM is the only tank i have at lvl 110.

Edit: Is 25% more damage taken in instanced PvP still a thing for tanks?

[Pandragon]

The only fun thing about BrM pvp is Mighty Ox kick. I just run around the bg going "kick" and kicking people into the air. Which loses its fun when you kick anyone with an ability like charge, heroic leap, grappling hook...ect..ect..Because the kick is very slow, they have enough time to respond to it.

[AetherMcLoud]

Probably the worst tank out of all the pvp tanks. We have some CC, but that's it. We have no damage and no real mitigation and we have like no self heal at all.

[Will]

Damage and self heal is OK. Not terrible. Not amazing. With nimble brews or guard, you're quite useful in a big fight but you'd need a healer to survive all that extra stagger. The ox kick isn't always reliable as it sometimes knocks people the wrong direction. Stagger can also prevent you from disarming bombs in strand which is super annoying.

Your best talent will be hot trub - you can do some decent numbers with it.

Even with eerie fermentation casters will eat you alive (before 7.1.5 they were relatively harmless) but you can hold your own quite well vs physical damage dealers.

[PyroXide]

I'm surprised how many people think it's not good. I for one find brewmaster to be just as gimmicky as it always has been for bg's. Transcendence still lets you clip through walls and floors, so running flags and camping is just as broken as it's always been. Like godly transcendence use is the gimmick.

With the amount of movement speed buffs you get and the lack of stunnability running flags is a joke. And if you queue into a non ctf bg, your ability to lock down a healer and soak for your team is pretty broken. Guided Meditation absorbs buckets of damage and peels for your healers.

As far as damage goes, I find it easy to perma slow and beat people down 1v2, or if there is a mistweaver keep them harassed so the dps can finish them. But really, if you're a tank in say a stand of the ancients, you should be running demos all day or spinning your heart out at gates. But between special deliveries, double barrel/breath, leg sweep, exploding keg, keg smashes, like you can dish out some mezzes

[Saverem]

BrMs are actually the worst tanks in PvP simply due to their shitty PvP talents and the stagger mechanic.


VDH, Prot Wars and Prot Pallies are decent, and actually make for pretty good flag carriers. GDrus are meh and BrMs are at the bottom. Go MW or WW, those are 100000X better choices. In fact, I'd say WWs are more tanky than BrMs in BGs.

[PyroXide]

BrMs are actually the worst tanks in PvP simply due to their shitty PvP talents and the stagger mechanic.


VDH, Prot Wars and Prot Pallies are decent, and actually make for pretty good flag carriers. GDrus are meh and BrMs are at the bottom. Go MW or WW, those are 100000X better choices. In fact, I'd say WWs are more tanky than BrMs in BGs.

You gotta be trolling right? WW's tankier than BrMs? I play both and WW is the squishiest class in the game outside of their karmas. BrM's stagger mechanic is what makes them broken for pvp. DPS pops their cooldowns/one shot macros and you literally purify all of it while slowing them with SD's and getting away. I dunno, if you really think WW's are tankier than BrM's I have to believe you are playing it wrong.

[Valenhil]

Give me a a couple months and I'll answer that for you. I'm going through every tank fully talented in Bgs and arenas, unranked and ranked, so we finally have an actuall account on how the role is doing.

So far, Prot Paladin's 200% Haste is better than any nerfs it got and still has a very strong presence in team fights, Blood DK is completely useless without Death Chain and even then not very useful, and Prot Warrior kicks all kinds of ass, making Warrior possibly the very first class with all specs equally viable.

Guardian Druid is next.

[Saverem]

You gotta be trolling right? WW's tankier than BrMs? I play both and WW is the squishiest class in the game outside of their karmas. BrM's stagger mechanic is what makes them broken for pvp. DPS pops their cooldowns/one shot macros and you literally purify all of it while slowing them with SD's and getting away. I dunno, if you really think WW's are tankier than BrM's I have to believe you are playing it wrong.

Lol! You must have never played any other tank then. I have 110 VDH, PPally, BrM, and BDK and BrM is by far the worst of them in PvP. All the other tanks have great defensive CDs and self healing, BrMs stagger means they will be taking damage, it'll just be in DoT form instead of actually mitigating it or healing it like the other tanks. Prot Pallies, Wars and VDH have great PvP talents that actually make them useful. BrMs have shit talents. Guard used to be good, it's worthless now.

BrMs could potentially be better IF they have a pocket heal healing their stagger DoTs, but if you have a pocket heal, then you might as well just go WW for the better damage and CC.


As for WWs, they have ToK, FSK, transcendence 20% of HP heals, Chi orbs, and ISE talent. In BGs, it's not even close how much better a WW is than a BrM. I die a lot more often as BrM than as a WW.

You're either ignorant or a troll.

[Valenhil]

Hey, if you've already got 4/6, could you write a few words on how they're performing?

[infinit]

BrM is by far the worst Tank spec for PVP

too much is tied to brew charges, if they are used for anything but to purify damage you are taking all incoming damage.
ISB just smooths out the damage, you still take it all
Doing damage via hot trub take away Purify charge meaning you take more damage
Removing snare via Niuzao again just means you are going to take more damage by stealing charges for Purify.

you really notice how weak you are when you fight dot/rot specs, your stagger never jumps up but your health just melts away fast.

[Will]

BrMs are actually the worst tanks in PvP simply due to their shitty PvP talents and the stagger mechanic.


VDH, Prot Wars and Prot Pallies are decent, and actually make for pretty good flag carriers. GDrus are meh and BrMs are at the bottom. Go MW or WW, those are 100000X better choices. In fact, I'd say WWs are more tanky than BrMs in BGs.

I actually have not found this to be the case. I've found BrM are actually quite useful in PvP. Our stagger vs casters is nowhere near as strong since 7.1.5 but stagger is still ridiculously strong vs primarily physical damage dealers. Our tooltkit has some pretty good stuff for flag carrying and capture point control.

Transcendence and Ring of Peace are really good for flag carrying; RoP can effectively barricade tunnels or passages, isolating the enemy team from you - like the tunnels in WSG for example. You can also - while carrying a flag in particular - create a transcendence point in a safe area like an upper balcony or behind a wall - and use it as an escape point when your health gets low. Alternatively you can drop transcendence at the capture point to enable quick return in a pinch. RoP is also pretty useful for placing directly under a flag as it prevents anyone from capturing it for 8 seconds - and if you're fighting melee you can stand in the dead centre and treat it as a refuge while you heal up a bit.

To say WW is more tanky is just stupid, you're playing BrM wrong if you find that. And to say they are 100000x better choices is just retarded. Why the exaggeration? BrM isn't anywhere NEAR as bad in PvP as you seem to think.

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BrM is by far the worst Tank spec for PVP

too much is tied to brew charges, if they are used for anything but to purify damage you are taking all incoming damage.
ISB just smooths out the damage, you still take it all
Doing damage via hot trub take away Purify charge meaning you take more damage
Removing snare via Niuzao again just means you are going to take more damage by stealing charges for Purify.

you really notice how weak you are when you fight dot/rot specs, your stagger never jumps up but your health just melts away fast.

PvP tanks are designed to work optimally with a healer in tow. I seem to have no problems with brew charges in PvP.

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Lol! You must have never played any other tank then.

No need to be snide.

I have 110 VDH, PPally, BrM, and BDK and BrM is by far the worst of them in PvP

That's just your opinion. I find BrM to be better than some of the others I've tried.

All the other tanks have great defensive CDs and self healing, BrMs stagger means they will be taking damage, it'll just be in DoT form instead of actually mitigating it or healing it like the other tanks

Which is why purifying brew exists. That's our damage reduction. And self heals are pretty good between orbs, elixir, CF, and for goats, GotN. In fact there have been situations where upon reaching 35% i've stayed alive for much longer by just gaining ludicrous amounts of healing orbs.

BrMs have shit talents. Guard used to be good, it's worthless now.

Nimble Brew? Guard's actually stronger than it was before because if you pop it in a huge team fight you're effectively giving EVERYONE within range a 30% dmg reduction - the damage DOES go on to you, but with a healer on you, you're actually contributing WAY more to a team fight with the new Guard than you were putting a moderate shield on yourself and 1 other person. Pretty game-changing in a big group fight in AV for example, and pretty nifty in Kotmogu's centre too. If you are lucky and get to purify a huge amount of stagger you can also take more than 50% of HP off with a single Hot Trub for everyone in range.

BrMs could potentially be better IF they have a pocket heal healing their stagger DoTs, but if you have a pocket heal, then you might as well just go WW for the better damage and CC.

PvP tanking is not about being selfish, it's about working as a team. It's about sitting on capture points and being a great big pain in the enemy team's arse, preventing them from controlling that point. Yeah I could go WW for more damage but by doing that my focus would shift away from control/point denial and toward nuking priority targets like enemy healers.

As for WWs, they have ToK, FSK, transcendence 20% of HP heals, Chi orbs, and ISE talent. In BGs, it's not even close how much better a WW is than a BrM. I die a lot more often as BrM than as a WW.

Good for you. I find the opposite. Maybe our playstyles are just turning out different results with BrM.

You're either ignorant or a troll.

And you're disgustingly rude.

As an aside WW is better for speed flag carrying due to FSK and still having the other useful utility talents plus the Transcend heal, but if it's the type of CTF game where it's a stalemate and both team's FCs are being hammered in their bases, I 99% would rather be BrM than WW when carrying the flag. Heck even if I were to never purify once, I'd still rather be BrM in this situation because healers are getting better efficiency healing me due to CF.

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All you can really do is to annoy their backline, healers and casters. Stun them, interrupt them, sap them, fire breath them, backflip them over a cliff - prevent them from doing anything. Your damage is crap and you can't kill on your own. As for survivability... well as long as you have brews left you're alright, but you're dead if you run out of them and you don't have a healer. You're not particularly self-sustainable, since BrM lacks selfheals.

You can kill just fine on your own but it takes longer than is desirable, and if the enemy is being healed you may as well give up! Everyone says BrM lacks self heals but... I don't know, I find I have quite a lot of self heal. You should take Elixir for PvP.

[infinit]

Everything you listed can be done by by WW or MW, but as BrM you have less mobility and less damage or healing ands you will take more damage then any other tank

[stross01]

Brewmaster is as close to worthless as you can get in pvp. I wouldn't even qualify it as an annoyance to other players.

If we didn't have Mighty Ox Kick, Leg Sweep, or interrupt, an opponent wouldn't even know we were there.

[Saverem]

Transcendence and Ring of Peace are really good for flag carrying;

Stopped reading after this. You obviously don't know what you're talking about if your defense of BrM in PvP is that they have something that literally all 3 specs have.

Edit: For those who want to PvP as a BrM, you will be gimped. Just how it is. Even the best PvP tanks, Wars/Pally/DH are still worse than the weakest DPS class. Don't believe me? Try to get into a PuG RBG group as a tank. You won't. Ever. for Monks, WWs literally does everything a BrM does but better. Better DPS, better CC, better mobility, better survival. There is just no reason to go BrM for instanced PvP unless you want to purposely gimp yourself. Yes, you will survive a bit better than WWs in a straight up melee against you, but WWs just had more options to survive. The BrM will sit there and die.

HOWEVER, if it's world PvP, then yes, tanks aren't bad there since they aren't restricted to their PvP templates. A Prot Warrior will pretty much 2 shot any DPS in world PvP. They are immortal juggernauts. If you come across a prot Warrior with over 5k HP in world PvP area, just run the opposite way. I'd still say BrMs are weaker than WWs in world PvP though. BrMs just aren't good PvP tanks all around...

[HG-Bounder-X]

I played BrM in BGs while I was getting the hidden artifact color, and I found I had no problems staying alive or killing people. Only a few specific classes could whittle me down, and even then only with someone else supporting them. And I was able to kill many a class even in 1v2 or 1v3 as long as one of them wasn't a competent healer.

Now in RBGs this would obviously be different, but BrM can be very useful in team plays as well.

[Valenhil]

For those who want to PvP as a BrM, you will be gimped. Just how it is. Even the best PvP tanks, Wars/Pally/DH are still worse than the weakest DPS class. Don't believe me? Try to get into a PuG RBG group as a tank. You won't. Ever. for Monks, WWs literally does everything a BrM does but better. Better DPS, better CC, better mobility, better survival. There is just no reason to go BrM for instanced PvP unless you want to purposely gimp yourself. Yes, you will survive a bit better than WWs in a straight up melee against you, but WWs just had more options to survive. The BrM will sit there and die.

I disagree as far as Protection Paladin and Warrior are concerned, and I can also include arenas in that. I'd rather have one of them instead of an additional DPS in pretty much all situations. Protection Warrior does pretty much the same damage as Arms, replacing the healing debuff with other utilities like a 24s stun, debuff to damage done, more cleave, and spell reflection. And for paladin, the new 200% Haste with Crusader's Judgment means you're throwing judgements nonstop, so both Judgements of the Pure and Fist of Justice are stronger than ever, and you can spam HotP much more.

Those 2 didn't get nerfed recently for being "worse than the weakest DPS", you know.

Not Blood DKs, though. They's irreparably selfish and contribute next to nothing to the rest of the group.

[Saverem]

I disagree as far as Protection Paladin and Warrior are concerned, and I can also include arenas in that. I'd rather have one of them instead of an additional DPS in pretty much all situations. Protection Warrior does pretty much the same damage as Arms, replacing the healing debuff with other utilities like a 24s stun, debuff to damage done, more cleave, and spell reflection. And for paladin, the new 200% Haste with Crusader's Judgment means you're throwing judgements nonstop, so both Judgements of the Pure and Fist of Justice are stronger than ever, and you can spam HotP much more.

Those 2 didn't get nerfed recently for being "worse than the weakest DPS", you know.

Not Blood DKs, though. They's irreparably selfish and contribute next to nothing to the rest of the group.

I'll say in terms of arena tanks Pallies and Wars are the best choices, but I'd definitely take an Arms Warrior over them. No way is an equal level/skill Prot Warrior doing the same damage as an Arms in instanced PvP. Not to mention Arms has some of the best PvP utilities in the game in duel, disarm, and sharpen blades plus they also get spell reflection like Prots. Best utility Prot Wars offer is that annoying 1s root every 5s or so.


In world PvP, yes, Prot Wars dominate easily; in instanced, no.

Prot Wars/Pallies are the best DPS tanks in the game right now, but it's still not enough for being useful in instanced PvP. If they remove the 20% damage mitigation penalty that all tanks get in instanced PvP, then they'd be a lot more useful.

[Valenhil]

I'll say in terms of arena tanks Pallies and Wars are the best choices, but I'd definitely take an Arms Warrior over them. No way is an equal level/skill Prot Warrior doing the same damage as an Arms in instanced PvP. Not to mention Arms has some of the best PvP utilities in the game in duel, disarm, and sharpen blades plus they also get spell reflection like Prots. Best utility Prot Wars offer is that annoying 1s root every 5s or so.


In world PvP, yes, Prot Wars dominate easily; in instanced, no.

Prot Wars/Pallies are the best DPS tanks in the game right now, but it's still not enough for being useful in instanced PvP. If they remove the 20% damage mitigation penalty that all tanks get in instanced PvP, then they'd be a lot more useful.

Hey, I used Arms and Fury too. Arms' stolen tank talent aside(Duel), Prot definitely has the edge on utility to make up for the (small) difference in single target damage. Mass Spell Reflection, Morale Killer (with Booming Voice), and Warpath (with a 24s CD Heroic Leap) are the ideal talent choices for anything but 2v2 from my experiences and make the Protection warrior have an influence Arms can only dream of. Arms is still the best option to kill through a healer and Mortal Strike will always keep it relevant, but Prot's defensive backbone shouldn't be understimated.

As I said, I really do believe all 3 Warrior specs are toe to toe in usefulness.

[Saverem]

Hey, I used Arms and Fury too. Arms' stolen tank talent aside(Duel), Prot definitely has the edge on utility to make up for the (small) difference in single target damage. Mass Spell Reflection, Morale Killer (with Booming Voice), and Warpath (with a 24s CD Heroic Leap) are the ideal talent choices for anything but 2v2 from my experiences and make the Protection warrior have an influence Arms can only dream of. Arms is still the best option to kill through a healer and Mortal Strike will always keep it relevant, but Prot's defensive backbone shouldn't be understimated.

As I said, I really do believe all 3 Warrior specs are toe to toe in usefulness.

We can sit here and argue the validity of Prot Warriors in 3s all day long, but if you look at the actual facts: http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...class_filter=1

You'll see there is literally only 1 (ONE) Prot Warrior above 2k rating. Only 1 in existence.