Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[Roshar]

Wow, that's the worst thing ever... Mythic+ score is one of the worst things the community has ever put together and with this addon it's fucking gearscore all over again.
Truly shitty

Found the guy that wants to be carried.

[Firatha]

Exactly, this is a feature perfect for excluding people and making sure they'll never get to participate in this fun. Just like gearscore.
This is why the WoW community sucks.

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Heh, personal attacks, cute. You're all wrong though.

Do you not understand people NEED to be excluded from some things high mythic + like high end raiding are competitive you cant take people who have no idea what they are doing and be competitive how can you people not comprehend that fact as Dracodraco's post states is beyond me

[Wishblade]

Well, even more reason to not do Mythic+ I guess cuz after not having bothered for ages I doubt people will want to take me along now that this is a thing.

Oh well, there's always guildies if I really care for some reason. :P

[Deleted]

Do you not understand people NEED to be excluded from some things high mythic + like high end raiding are competitive you cant take people who have no idea what they are doing and be competitive how can you people not comprehend that fact as Dracodraco's post states is beyond me

Yes, finding more ways to arbitrarily exclude people from participating is awesome in an MMO. (That's sarcasm by the way)
It's strange that it's so hard to see that once this is adopted by the people who run high keys, it will also be adoped by the people who think a +4 is a challenge - because they need to stick it to the "losers" as well.

On the whole the community suffers because we're discouraging grouping and we're excluding people based on some number on a 3rd party website

And I understand the need just fine. Just like in mythic raiding the NEED is to form a steady static group - that runs high keys together regularly. The NEED is not to find a new random pugger to every dungeon. And in order to find that group of steady friends to run with, the community needs to be inclusive.

Also - I do understand this is where all the eSports kids are going and that WoW is really a quite shitty MMO these days and the future is looking even shittier with more focus on these eSport dungeons. I understand why you guys want to exclude everyone and do your little pug groups and let some 3rd party site control your life and choices. I get it - it's all in the name of competitive eSporting.

I'm just saying it's going to lead to a shitty eSport community, like we have in MOBAs and other places. You can do M+ by allowing for inclusiveness and promoting community building. This is not that.

[Dracodraco]

Yes, finding more ways to arbitrarily exclude people from participating is awesome in an MMO. (That's sarcasm by the way)
It's strange that it's so hard to see that once this is adopted by the people who run high keys, it will also be adoped by the people who think a +4 is a challenge - because they need to stick it to the "losers" as well.

On the whole the community suffers because we're discouraging grouping and we're excluding people based on some number on a 3rd party website

And I understand the need just fine. Just like in mythic raiding the NEED is to form a steady static group - that runs high keys together regularly. The NEED is not to find a new random pugger to every dungeon. And in order to find that group of steady friends to run with, the community needs to be inclusive.

Also - I do understand this is where all the eSports kids are going and that WoW is really a quite shitty MMO these days and the future is looking even shittier with more focus on these eSport dungeons. I understand why you guys want to exclude everyone and do your little pug groups and let some 3rd party site control your life and choices. I get it - it's all in the name of competitive eSporting.

I'm just saying it's going to lead to a shitty eSport community, like we have in MOBAs and other places. You can do M+ by allowing for inclusiveness and promoting community building. This is not that.

So to summarize - in your ideal world, everyone would just take the first people that signed up for a dungeon, regardless of gear level, and potential skill level - first come, first serve, because that's "inclusive". Doesn't matter how they perform, doesn't matter if it's a PITA for the 4 others that you took a 915 survival hunter to a 15; He was there first, and we should not be dictated by simple stuff like arbitrary gauges of performance.

Yea, name me one game where this actually works well.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Somewhere along the way I got way, way, way too concerned about what other players think of me to the point where I'm not even willing to do heroic dungeons in a pug let alone Mythic or raiding. Unfortunately all of my friends left prior to the release of Nighthold and the guild essentially collapsed not long after so I've done maybe a dozen M+ dungeons in the span of Legion and have a pretty spotty normal-mode progression where I haven't even done all of ToS on LFR let alone a higher difficulty.

You'd think I'd be mad at this tool for what it is and how it can potentially restrict my experience but in reality it's my fault for being insecure and I feel like a lot of players who have a problem with it are in the same position but find it easier to blame an addon rather than to accept responsibility.

If you've been doing M+ and end game content even semi-regularly then you really shouldn't have much to worry about especially if you're not pushing the top whereas if you've been hiding in your shell this whole time then why is this now a problem? Furthermore, why can't the player make a group for content which is relevant and challenging to them and not expect it to get any less interest?

[thebdc]

Let's hope people cry hard enough for Blizzard to add proper M+ API so my alts can get scored for their under +15 runs on Monday/Tuesday.

This is the real problem. On my warrior I have a M+ score of 73. I regularly do +10-13 on him, but since we're doing it as a guild group and we're playing on EU Draenor (one of the biggest EU realms), by the time we do M+ you usually need a +15 to get into the top 100 list at all.

[Baelic]

You could. But lets be entirely honest here, there's a much higher chance that someone who's just starting out will be a bigger liability. It's the same reason people take people with the highest gear; there's a greater chance that the 945 item level player knows how to play his class and the game, than the 930, because it requires more time/effort to get to 945 than it does 930. Sure, one out of ten times you might get an absolute asswipe who got boosted to 945, and sure, one out of ten times you'll pick some 930 dude up that's amazing at the game and isn't dead weight despite a lower gear level than you'd have liked. Those things do indeed happen. But why people think "you could be passing up some amazing players!" is an actual valid argument for not caring about gear is beyond me. It just isn't logical to go for the thing that has higher odds of your group failing.

Same goes for M+ score.

Because much like power-levels, M+ score is bullshit.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Once people invented fake achievement addons this was the next logical step in the war of stupid. Side one was to pathetic to earn an achievement and faked it. Side B created a way to side step the achievement.

[dd614]

Awesome, so now it will be even harder to get into groups. Anyone can do +10 or +11 for their weekly cache with ease, but now we're seeing +8s asking for KSM and +1500 gear score. This is fucking obnoxious. 90% of the people loving this addon are probably edgy cucks who struggle to get their +10 done for the week as well.

[ItsTiddles]

I don't get the hate for the addon. The people using it were most likely looking up m+ scores on the website before. This just helps groups get filled faster, at least for the people who do m+ regularly. If you're one of those who only farms the same 1-2 dungeons for whatever reason so your score is low, make your own group? You can even invite whoever you want (although I can't imagine you would take a 910 spriest over a 930 rogue, even though the spriest could be better).

[Netherspark]

So as someone who only occasionally does Mythic+, and thus has very little "score", this addon and the site it's associated with are deliberately created to fuck me over...

Blizzard will break this addon. And probably issue the website a cease and desist.

[Mlz]

Awesome, so now it will be even harder to get into groups. Anyone can do +10 or +11 for their weekly cache with ease, but now we're seeing +8s asking for KSM and +1500 gear score. This is fucking obnoxious. 90% of the people loving this addon are probably edgy cucks who struggle to get their +10 done for the week as well.

Just out of curiosity I put up several 10-12 groups tonight (with 930+ ilvl req) and not once did I get 1k+ m+ score people applying (I had well over 20 applicants each time within minutes). What makes you think that those who have 1,5k+ score will ever bother with your shitty +8 groups?

[ItsTiddles]

So as someone who only occasionally does Mythic+, and thus has very little "score", this addon and the site it's associated with are deliberately created to fuck me over...

How does it fuck you over if you only occasionally do m+? There are plenty of groups that still accept lower ilvl people into m+ groups. That wont change because not everyone is going to care enough to get this. Sure, it's a better chance of winning if you join a group with stricter requirements, but you don't have to try to join those groups.

[durrtygoodz]

So as someone who only occasionally does Mythic+, and thus has very little "score", this addon and the site it's associated with are deliberately created to fuck me over...

Blizzard will break this addon. And probably issue the website a cease and desist.

The addon changes nothing. It's not the addon itself that gives you the score. People have been able to check you any time by looking at WoWProgress or Raider.io

[ls-]

So as someone who only occasionally does Mythic+, and thus has very little "score", this addon and the site it's associated with are deliberately created to fuck me over...

Blizzard will break this addon. And probably issue the website a cease and desist.

There's nothing to break, it doesn't really rely on any M+ API because there's none, it uses DB that's composed by raider.io website.

[Lucetia]

Hey all! I just wanted to hop in and mention that we finally finished the Raider.IO Mythic Plus addon! This addon allows you to quickly see M+ scores in game, and also lets you easily copy a link to a character's Raider.IO profile. Many thanks to the people that helped us beta test over the last week or so, and a HUUUUGE shoutout to Vladinator who did amazing work on the addon itself.

Get more info here! https://raider.io/addon

Gotta love how people want to find more and more ways ingame to segregate groups. Sure you can look this up externally, but not as many people would. With an addon it basically makes people even more "elitist" with their attitudes. Oh well guess it's time to definitely stay away from Mythic+.

[Clozer]

Gotta love how people want to find more and more ways ingame to segregate groups. Sure you can look this up externally, but not as many people would. With an addon it basically makes people even more "elitist" with their attitudes. Oh well guess it's time to definitely stay away from Mythic+.

yeah, better off to create your own group, invite some randoms and fail that dungeon. Must be fun.

[Lucetia]

yeah, better off to create your own group, invite some randoms and fail that dungeon. Must be fun.

I would rather do that than deal with an addon that wants to make things exclusive. Addons like that have so many factors that don't get included, but yet will cause people not to get invited to them. It's a completely flawed idea, but yet people will use it as the "end all be all" way of doing things. If you are wanting to go for something like +20 then yeah sure it has it's benefits. We all know though even on +1's and beyond people will use it as the the definitive holy grail making things worse. We saw it with gearscore and this does exactly the same thing except in a worse sense. At least with gear score you got a higher score based on getting gear (which even had it's flaws due to RNG and could be farming for months). This one relies on being in top ranks to get noticed and such.

[Deleted]

So to summarize - in your ideal world, everyone would just take the first people that signed up for a dungeon, regardless of gear level, and potential skill level - first come, first serve, because that's "inclusive". Doesn't matter how they perform, doesn't matter if it's a PITA for the 4 others that you took a 915 survival hunter to a 15; He was there first, and we should not be dictated by simple stuff like arbitrary gauges of performance.

Yea, name me one game where this actually works well.

Obviously you completely (deliberately) misunderstood the whole "building a community, making friends and running things with a steady group of them"-aspect. But that's ok, you obviously want the world where people are divided to "good players" and "baddies" based on a score that some dudes post on the website somewhere. It's all black and white right? You either make it or you can "work and earn it" right?.

Yeah, sounds like totally cool community to play in, go for it mate and come back and report how that helped to boost player participation in M+ in longer perspective.

I don't really have any ego riding in this discussion, I've got my group of friends I run with weekly (several of which I've met through the group finder, just by inviting them to lower keys and being friendly and social). I mean sure, we might not be pushing the 20+ keys on every affix, but I'd take that over any "omgomg we're sooo eSports-competitive we need a 3rd party website to tell us who's good and bad"-world you seem to live in. But if that works, then cool - I just don't want to be part of it.

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I would rather do that than deal with an addon that wants to make things exclusive. Addons like that have so many factors that don't get included, but yet will cause people not to get invited to them. It's a completely flawed idea, but yet people will use it as the "end all be all" way of doing things. If you are wanting to go for something like +20 then yeah sure it has it's benefits. We all know though even on +1's and beyond people will use it as the the definitive holy grail making things worse. We saw it with gearscore and this does exactly the same thing except in a worse sense. At least with gear score you got a higher score based on getting gear (which even had it's flaws due to RNG and could be farming for months). This one relies on being in top ranks to get noticed and such.

^ Yeah, this is pretty much spot on. Using something like this for high keys is probably ok, but pushing an addon and marketing it, is just going to make it a "must" for every group in group finder. Yes, even the +1's and +4's - and it's just going to lead into a community that views participation as a hard number. And the fact that the number is some arbitary function on a 3rd party website is just... meh.