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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    Exactly, this is a feature perfect for excluding people and making sure they'll never get to participate in this fun. Just like gearscore.
    This is why the WoW community sucks.
    Someone is always excluded, and if the group fills up, someone is always included.

  2. #162
    High Overlord
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    Nothing wrong with it, applicants are getting looked up already. Let's hope people cry hard enough for Blizzard to add proper M+ API so my alts can get scored for their under +15 runs on Monday/Tuesday.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    Exactly, this is a feature perfect for excluding people and making sure they'll never get to participate in this fun. Just like gearscore.
    This is why the WoW community sucks.

    Someone that actually wants to be a part of that community wouldn't take someone with low score themselves, and they'd build up their own score the "hard" way (by doing so in groups that do not bother to check M+, or by going with a group of friends/guildies).

    The main issue I have with your viewpoint is that you see it as an "all or nothing" kind of deal. If he wants to participate in the high M+ environment, all he has to do is prove himself. He can get to 2.2K score simply by doing every dungeon on a +15, something you can easily pug without "vetting" people, so all he has to do is go and do that with other people in the same boat as him. Yea, it's gonna suck whenever he gets someone that sucks at the game, but that's the admission price you pay to be let into groups that do even higher stuff, where that shit is far less common. He isn't "banned" from doing high M+ just because he has a low score; He just won't be taken by other people with high score, because they already paid the admission price of having to play with the idiots who genuinely can't go beyond 15.


    I hate to admit it but if you're a troll, well done - I get seriously pissed at people that expect others to carry them for no other reason than "BUT EQUALITY". There will always be measures of how good a player is. If a good player in any game is stuck in a low tier of that game, (s)he will quickly rise through the ranks untill they are at an even playing field. WoW is no different. People that thinks "oh but you should take this dude because maybe he's good. He hasn't proven himself yet, but we might be lucky and it's the right thing to do" really seem to get on my nerves, because there's fuck all logic to it.

    If you take whichever 4 random people that signs up for your +19 key rather than figuring out if they're good first, then all of the power to you. I just think you're stupid for believing that's how competitive stuff should work. I mean no offense with it, but I cannot comprehend that viewpoint personally.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    Wow, that's the worst thing ever... Mythic+ score is one of the worst things the community has ever put together and with this addon it's fucking gearscore all over again.
    Truly shitty
    Found the guy that wants to be carried.

  5. #165
    Mechagnome Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    Exactly, this is a feature perfect for excluding people and making sure they'll never get to participate in this fun. Just like gearscore.
    This is why the WoW community sucks.

    - - - Updated - - -







    Heh, personal attacks, cute. You're all wrong though.
    Do you not understand people NEED to be excluded from some things high mythic + like high end raiding are competitive you cant take people who have no idea what they are doing and be competitive how can you people not comprehend that fact as Dracodraco's post states is beyond me
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    I actually do not want to kill, unless I had no other choice. But burning down some richie homes, corporate office, or some congressional buildings I feel no remorse for at all.
    On wanting to start a civil war 2017.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok, sounds great, I love Anita Sarkeesian, I think she is an amazing mind, wandering human being, and has very important views on a lot of issues
    Well that explains a lot.

  6. #166
    Well, even more reason to not do Mythic+ I guess cuz after not having bothered for ages I doubt people will want to take me along now that this is a thing.

    Oh well, there's always guildies if I really care for some reason. :P

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Firatha View Post
    Do you not understand people NEED to be excluded from some things high mythic + like high end raiding are competitive you cant take people who have no idea what they are doing and be competitive how can you people not comprehend that fact as Dracodraco's post states is beyond me
    Yes, finding more ways to arbitrarily exclude people from participating is awesome in an MMO. (That's sarcasm by the way)
    It's strange that it's so hard to see that once this is adopted by the people who run high keys, it will also be adoped by the people who think a +4 is a challenge - because they need to stick it to the "losers" as well.

    On the whole the community suffers because we're discouraging grouping and we're excluding people based on some number on a 3rd party website

    And I understand the need just fine. Just like in mythic raiding the NEED is to form a steady static group - that runs high keys together regularly. The NEED is not to find a new random pugger to every dungeon. And in order to find that group of steady friends to run with, the community needs to be inclusive.

    Also - I do understand this is where all the eSports kids are going and that WoW is really a quite shitty MMO these days and the future is looking even shittier with more focus on these eSport dungeons. I understand why you guys want to exclude everyone and do your little pug groups and let some 3rd party site control your life and choices. I get it - it's all in the name of competitive eSporting.

    I'm just saying it's going to lead to a shitty eSport community, like we have in MOBAs and other places. You can do M+ by allowing for inclusiveness and promoting community building. This is not that.
    Last edited by SpeedyOcelot; Yesterday at 08:34 PM.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    Yes, finding more ways to arbitrarily exclude people from participating is awesome in an MMO. (That's sarcasm by the way)
    It's strange that it's so hard to see that once this is adopted by the people who run high keys, it will also be adoped by the people who think a +4 is a challenge - because they need to stick it to the "losers" as well.

    On the whole the community suffers because we're discouraging grouping and we're excluding people based on some number on a 3rd party website

    And I understand the need just fine. Just like in mythic raiding the NEED is to form a steady static group - that runs high keys together regularly. The NEED is not to find a new random pugger to every dungeon. And in order to find that group of steady friends to run with, the community needs to be inclusive.

    Also - I do understand this is where all the eSports kids are going and that WoW is really a quite shitty MMO these days and the future is looking even shittier with more focus on these eSport dungeons. I understand why you guys want to exclude everyone and do your little pug groups and let some 3rd party site control your life and choices. I get it - it's all in the name of competitive eSporting.

    I'm just saying it's going to lead to a shitty eSport community, like we have in MOBAs and other places. You can do M+ by allowing for inclusiveness and promoting community building. This is not that.
    So to summarize - in your ideal world, everyone would just take the first people that signed up for a dungeon, regardless of gear level, and potential skill level - first come, first serve, because that's "inclusive". Doesn't matter how they perform, doesn't matter if it's a PITA for the 4 others that you took a 915 survival hunter to a 15; He was there first, and we should not be dictated by simple stuff like arbitrary gauges of performance.

    Yea, name me one game where this actually works well.

  9. #169
    The Lightbringer Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Somewhere along the way I got way, way, way too concerned about what other players think of me to the point where I'm not even willing to do heroic dungeons in a pug let alone Mythic or raiding. Unfortunately all of my friends left prior to the release of Nighthold and the guild essentially collapsed not long after so I've done maybe a dozen M+ dungeons in the span of Legion and have a pretty spotty normal-mode progression where I haven't even done all of ToS on LFR let alone a higher difficulty.

    You'd think I'd be mad at this tool for what it is and how it can potentially restrict my experience but in reality it's my fault for being insecure and I feel like a lot of players who have a problem with it are in the same position but find it easier to blame an addon rather than to accept responsibility.

    If you've been doing M+ and end game content even semi-regularly then you really shouldn't have much to worry about especially if you're not pushing the top whereas if you've been hiding in your shell this whole time then why is this now a problem? Furthermore, why can't the player make a group for content which is relevant and challenging to them and not expect it to get any less interest?
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; Yesterday at 10:41 PM.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by f4ncybear View Post
    Let's hope people cry hard enough for Blizzard to add proper M+ API so my alts can get scored for their under +15 runs on Monday/Tuesday.
    This is the real problem. On my warrior I have a M+ score of 73. I regularly do +10-13 on him, but since we're doing it as a guild group and we're playing on EU Draenor (one of the biggest EU realms), by the time we do M+ you usually need a +15 to get into the top 100 list at all.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    You could. But lets be entirely honest here, there's a much higher chance that someone who's just starting out will be a bigger liability. It's the same reason people take people with the highest gear; there's a greater chance that the 945 item level player knows how to play his class and the game, than the 930, because it requires more time/effort to get to 945 than it does 930. Sure, one out of ten times you might get an absolute asswipe who got boosted to 945, and sure, one out of ten times you'll pick some 930 dude up that's amazing at the game and isn't dead weight despite a lower gear level than you'd have liked. Those things do indeed happen. But why people think "you could be passing up some amazing players!" is an actual valid argument for not caring about gear is beyond me. It just isn't logical to go for the thing that has higher odds of your group failing.

    Same goes for M+ score.
    Because much like power-levels, M+ score is bullshit.

  12. #172
    Legendary! Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Once people invented fake achievement addons this was the next logical step in the war of stupid. Side one was to pathetic to earn an achievement and faked it. Side B created a way to side step the achievement.

  13. #173
    Awesome, so now it will be even harder to get into groups. Anyone can do +10 or +11 for their weekly cache with ease, but now we're seeing +8s asking for KSM and +1500 gear score. This is fucking obnoxious. 90% of the people loving this addon are probably edgy cucks who struggle to get their +10 done for the week as well.

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