Exsanguinate Still Underwhelming Compared to Agonizing Poison.

[ripple19]

Currently about 95% of all top parses in heroic Nighthold, and I'm sure it's the same for mythic, are players who are taking Agonizing Poison. So, it seems that Exsanguinate needs some kind of buff to keep it in line with the other talents in that set. I personally find the playstyle of Exsan much more fun but after looking at these logs it seems like I'm holding my guild back by sticking with it. Does everybody else agree that it needs a bit more damage associated with it....make it so that all bleeds affected have their damage increased by 5% or something like that. Because, as of now, Exang seems to be beat by AP by more than 30-40k dps single target or more.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT...It's about a 100k dps difference with top parses....I HAVE THE HIGHEST EXSANGUINATE PARSE ON STAR AUGUR WITH 629k dps(Irîss). Again...highest parse in the 896-898 IL range with that talent, WHILE AP HAS A TOP OF 730k(Ignoring the 760k outlier). That is holy fucking ridiculous...fix this disparity please...... Krosus (IL 890-892) Highest Exsan parse is 614k, highest AP is 750k.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...t=19&boss=1863
3rd page, number 238 (at this moment in time).



https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y=4&bracket=17

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ion&bracket=17

[o17ver]

Currently about 95% of all top parses in heroic Nighthold, and I'm sure it's the same for mythic, are players who are taking Agonizing Poison. So, it seems that Exsanguinate needs some kind of buff to keep it in line with the other talents in that set. I personally find the playstyle of Exsan much more fun but after looking at these logs it seems like I'm holding my guild back by sticking with it. Does everybody else agree that it needs a bit more damage associated with it....make it so that all bleeds affected have their damage increased by 5% or something like that. Because, as of now, Exang seems to be beat by AP by more than 30-40k dps single target or more.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y=4&bracket=17

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ion&bracket=17

I love playing with exsang too, but NH seems to push everyone towards poison spec.

The stats on NH gear aren't great for exsang, the 4p is way better with poison and KB/PB are just weak without it.

[Nocuous]

It used to be so much fun...T_T...AP is boring imo, but the better DPS.

[Deleted]

The real problem is that this retarded AP spec is still a thing after almost 3 raids. They are apparently unable to keep up with number of scaling issues AP is creating, so the only solution is to simply remove the talent and balance Assassination around Exsanguinate. Doubt it will ever happen tho, there must always be the dumb spec.

[Deleted]

The real problem is that this retarded AP spec is still a thing after almost 3 raids. They are apparently unable to keep up with number of scaling issues AP is creating, so the only solution is to simply remove the talent and balance Assassination around Exsanguinate. Doubt it will ever happen tho, there must always be the dumb spec.

Pressing one more button every 45 seconds turns a dumb spec into a non-dumb spec?

[Deleted]

In this case yes.

[Master Guns]

That pro logic though

[ripple19]

At least it requires you to watch cool downs and line up combos correctly. Agreed, not as hard as other specs but it's better than nothing.

[Deleted]

MP/AP also has a lot of cd lining etc, if played properly. It´s not THAT braindead.

[ymirsson]

Currently about 95% of all top parses in heroic Nighthold, and I'm sure it's the same for mythic, are players who are taking Agonizing Poison. So, it seems that Exsanguinate needs some kind of buff to keep it in line with the other talents in that set. I personally find the playstyle of Exsan much more fun but after looking at these logs it seems like I'm holding my guild back by sticking with it. Does everybody else agree that it needs a bit more damage associated with it....make it so that all bleeds affected have their damage increased by 5% or something like that. Because, as of now, Exang seems to be beat by AP by more than 30-40k dps single target or more.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y=4&bracket=17

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ion&bracket=17

40k DPS? That's how much? Less then 5%? Also known as negligible?

[Master Guns]

40k DPS is negligible?

[Finear]

The real problem is that this retarded AP spec is still a thing after almost 3 raids. They are apparently unable to keep up with number of scaling issues AP is creating, so the only solution is to simply remove the talent and balance Assassination around Exsanguinate. Doubt it will ever happen tho, there must always be the dumb spec.

please no i hate how exsanguinate plays it feels kinda clunky

[jsz]

please no i hate how exsanguinate plays it feels kinda clunky

"clunky"

threads over boys, time to pack it in.

[ymirsson]

40k DPS is negligible?

If you do eough DPS, 40k is negligible.

[ripple19]

Except it's not 40k dps...It's apparently 100k...much worse than I thought. That's more than 10% more damage.

[ripple19]

bumpitybump

[enzi]

+1 plx buff

A cool ability that gave the sustained dot damage the much needed burst. Now it can't even hold up against a passive snoozefest. Assassination is pretty much the last
bastion for me. I was a combat/sub player but those specs are a joke right now.

[Won7on]

IMO Agonizing Poison should be removed or reworked. It has a lot of problems:

• "My raid leader told me to swap, but I'm dealing 48% increased damage to this target... no thanks". To a certain extent, Ass will always be a single-target spec because of Vendetta, but AP only serves further shoehorn Ass into a "tunnel the boss" niche.
• It ruins our AoE. A Deadly Poison build actually deals respectable AoE with Poisoned Knives. Okay, not DH levels, but better than our bottom-of-the-barrel AoE right now...
• It has inherent design problems with double-dipping. AP builds will always outscale non-AP builds because Mastery and Master Poisoner scale both Kingsbane, Poison Bomb, and AP, increasing the damage of Kingsbane and Poison Bomb quadratically. If you remember school, a quadratic function will always surpass a linear one eventually.
• It doesn't suit the class fantasy. I know "class fantasy" is something that's used as a meme more often than not, but I really do find it weird that the spec is basically Feral Druid now. All bleeds, no poisons. As an Assassination Rogue, I want to be poisoning my victims with my attacks. Alternative Lethal poisons are a cool idea, but this is like the most boring possible implementation of one.
• It makes Assa into one of the easiest, low-APM specs in the game. Go look at any fight (H Trilliax as an easy patchwerk example), and compare the 25th percentile, 50th percentile, 75th percentile, and so on. Assassination Rogue will have a MASSIVE lead in the low percentiles, but that lead shrinks significantly as you go up into the 90s and higher. Some of that could be attributed to our relatively weaker Legendaries, but a big part of it is that Assassination just doesn't take a lot of skill to play. Very average players can get very good results on the spec.

[Deleted]

I can agree on most of your points, though of course that class fantasy thing is highly subjective. For example I enjoyed the exsang spec the most when we still had hemo.

Also low APM isn't inherently bad design or causes the spec to be too easy. I prefer low APM to mad button smashing (Arms), but I wish there was much more decision making involved regarding resource and CD management. Our kit doesn't have much depth, just dot-/buff watching + insanely boring, nobrainer passive talents. Once alacrity becomes the go-to talent if they decide to nerf Ago further we will be on 100% passive mode. No ago snapshotting to take care of, no stacks to take care of on multiple adds, just a passive haste buff that is 'just there', just like Vigor, MP, VR. But hey, at least we can mince in Vanish every two minutes thanks to Nightstalker / Subterfuge.

[DakonBlackblade]

Assassination is an easy to learn hard to master spec, its quite clear anyone playing Sin right does way more damage than the ones playing it wrong, it just so happens the one playing wrong also deal decent damage. I don't know whats wrong with that, not every spec needs to be incredibly complex. Ppl should relay stop whining about it, its getting old, the spec has been like this since forever, if you guys want rotations with thousands of skills and button presses go play FF XIV Dragoon.