Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Deleted]

You are saying that sitting on a pile of quests and mechanics given to you that are built on flying and wouldn't exist if flying wasn't there.

My reply is: "OK". I mean, what else is there to say. Just "OK".

Quests that involve flying are quests. Quests that have flying. Perfectly ok with that but that's not and I repeat NOT, a new tool for storytelling. Flying quests have been in forever and are not the same thing as allowing someone to mount up and fly do you understand that point?
Your reply shouldn't be. You should be quiet and understand the uselessness of your arguing.
FACT is flying removes tools available to developers for storytelling. There is nothing else to add.

You argued that you don't like those tools (personal opinion) you argued that flying adds new tools (no it doesn't, it's like walking, it doesn't add anything) and yet you don't understand.

Go quote some other dude now to make you feel part of a group.

[Deleted]

(I just wanted to complete a single discussion to its end. That's done, now I know not to engage, because it's just a waste of time as you say, he isn't saying anything worth reading yet alone replying to - it's just "are you OK? no flying is good, I have facts".)

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Me: "As I said, flying removes some options and adds others"
You: "It doesn't "add others". Please do name these mysterious "others" you're referring to."
You now have a list of these things.

Are we done now?

Well flying removes more than it adds, and untile it adds eqal to what it removes....
Its a unvalid argument.

[rda]

Well flying removes more than it adds, and untile it adds eqal to what it removes....
Its a unvalid argument.

If you want to call some argument "unvalid", present something other than the blank unsupported "well flying removes more than it adds".

[xanzul]

Yeah, so that's another alternative fact. You are wrong once again. It's kinda the entire reason why pro-flight folks are having the discussion.

Actual pro flyers aren't discussing anything as most of them are happy with the compromise Blizzard came up with. In fact actual pro flyers have told you flybabies more than a few times to go take a flying leap and quit whining so maybe all of you should think long and hard about why even the people who want the same thing as you are fed up with the whining.. Everything that can be said about this has been said and Blizzard has responded to each and every talking point people have brought up repeatedly. Until such a time that Blizzard changes their stance on the issue there is nothing left to "discuss".

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Doesn't need to. I feel entitled to enjoy anything I paid money to enjoy. Why should I pay money for something I don't enjoy?

So stop paying. It is as simple as that. Being a customer doesn't mean you get to dictate how a product is made.

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Thanks, that's great advice and a good life tip. A little off topic, but always good for people to keep in mind.

I'm sorry but your whole "you didn't read the post" nonsense is extremely ineffective as a tactic to counter posts that disagree with you. People read your posts just fine thank you very much they just simply disagree with you. That is this is called a discussion forum and not an echo chamber forum.

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The money i pay them?

Customers can ask for whatever they want but no company is obligated to change anything about their products.

[Soikona]

When you have to resort to Ad Hominem, you've already lost the discussion and prove you are not worth listening to. There are a HANDFUL of places in the ENTIRE GAME that can only be reached by flight. The other 98% is all reachable by walking (let alone riding). Also, it is worth noting I am a pro-flier. I just don't complain about the current situation because to me, Travel is FAR LESS meaningful than interesting art, open zones, and carefully created terrain. Nagrand in Outland is probably my favorite zone in the game, and I cannot tell you the last time I flew there.

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Not stuck, just playing a version other than retail. I get the game I enjoy without a monthly fee. My kids still play retail, so I get to see all the changes, and occasionally borrow their account to see what is different between the new Druid, and the Classic-Cata Druid. As for facts, it is a fact that WoW before Cata was just fine. In fact, plenty of people yelled to have Cata reversed. Meanwhile, others like myself were interested to see Azeroth with a facelift. There is nothing wrong with Azeroth as it stands today. Some people just need a reason to complain.

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Most players feel they are unique and that it is "their" game, therefore entitling them to play the way they see fit. Yet here we are several months into Legion, and they are still NOT getting their way. MoanaLisa is correct. Most of them are just noisemakers at this point, and they continue to squawk even without being an actual consumer currently paying to play the game.

Just the part I am quoted on, the second paragraph.... you literally just admitted you did not adapt to change... sooo your signature is an insult to your own intelligence?

[Flarelaine]

Actual pro flyers aren't discussing anything as most of them are happy with the compromise Blizzard came up with. In fact actual pro flyers have told you flybabies more than a few times to go take a flying leap and quit whining so maybe all of you should think long and hard about why even the people who want the same thing as you are fed up with the whining...

^^^^^^^
This.

[Deleted]

If you want to call some argument "unvalid", present something other than the blank unsupported "well flying removes more than it adds".

Invalid*

No thank you.

If you cant fantom that in your mind, i cant help you.

You are all so grumpy, well atleast i can fly soon.

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Actual pro flyers aren't discussing anything as most of them are happy with the compromise Blizzard came up with. In fact actual pro flyers have told you flybabies more than a few times to go take a flying leap and quit whining so maybe all of you should think long and hard about why even the people who want the same thing as you are fed up with the whining.. Everything that can be said about this has been said and Blizzard has responded to each and every talking point people have brought up repeatedly. Until such a time that Blizzard changes their stance on the issue there is nothing left to "discuss".

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So stop paying. It is as simple as that. Being a customer doesn't mean you get to dictate how a product is made.

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I'm sorry but your whole "you didn't read the post" nonsense is extremely ineffective as a tactic to counter posts that disagree with you. People read your posts just fine thank you very much they just simply disagree with you. That is this is called a discussion forum and not an echo chamber forum.

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Customers can ask for whatever they want but no company is obligated to change anything about their products.

I wonder of mcdonalds gets this much hassel over there burgers, that is clear cut rip off from the ads

[Deleted]

Customers can ask for whatever they want but no company is obligated to change anything about their products.

Agreed, but the post i replied to was questioning my right to ask

[rda]

No thank you.

If you cant fantom that in your mind, i cant help you.

You are all so grumpy, well atleast i can fly soon.

"I am right and if you ask why instead of immediately bowing to my wisdom I can't help you."

Cute. :-)

[-Joker-]

Just the part I am quoted on, the second paragraph.... you literally just admitted you did not adapt to change... sooo your signature is an insult to your own intelligence?

Often, adapting to change means finding a compromise or adding other value to your time to replace that which no longer fits or makes sense. Failing to make any adaptations at all is a problem. The signature speaks to those who would rather fight change than work with it or compromise around it to make their own lives easier. While I do still play retail from time to time, I also play a Gnome Druid elsewhere. That said, in addition to WoW, there are 4 or 5 MMOs I play that afford me time away from this one to gain perspective and understanding when it comes to design changes. But I stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong with the game as it stands, I just happen to enjoy my Gnome Druid more

[Deleted]

Often, adapting to change means finding a compromise or adding other value to your time to replace that which no longer fits or makes sense. Failing to make any adaptations at all is a problem. The signature speaks to those who would rather fight change than work with it or compromise around it to make their own lives easier. While I do still play retail from time to time, I also play a Gnome Druid elsewhere. That said, in addition to WoW, there are 4 or 5 MMOs I play that afford me time away from this one to gain perspective and understanding when it comes to design changes. But I stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong with the game as it stands, I just happen to enjoy my Gnome Druid more

Kill it with fire

[Ragedaug]

Tbh, only each one can decide if he prefer flying or no flying WoW.

Fact is there are plenty of people on each side, and blizzard has to cater to both groups.

Current is the only solution. You get half-an-expansion without flying and half-an-expansion with flying enabled. As a father who cant make his two childs play together with the same toy together ends up dividing playing time on the time, half a time for each sibling.

So @ anti-flying: you already had your half a time. Now suck it up and shut up while is ours. Any further bitching is just being an spoiled kid.

Here's the only problem I have with your analogy. Child #1 gets to play with the toy while it's the new fun toy, while Child #2 is told to wait. As soon as another new toy is available, Child #1 is given that toy and Child #2 finally gets to play with the old toy. I would imagine in this scenario, Child #2 would get disgruntled pretty quickly.

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So stop paying. It is as simple as that. Being a customer doesn't mean you get to dictate how a product is made.

I'm not dictating...do I look like a dictator? Do you think I have any power over Blizzard? I'm expressing an opinion. You think that is the same as dictating?

I'm sorry but your whole "you didn't read the post" nonsense is extremely ineffective as a tactic to counter posts that disagree with you. People read your posts just fine thank you very much they just simply disagree with you. That is this is called a discussion forum and not an echo chamber forum.

Yeah, I didn't say anything about not reading the post. I went back and checked and couldn't find it. If I did, let me know. That was the other dude whining that I haven't read the entire thread so I'm not allowed to respond to him.

Customers can ask for whatever they want but no company is obligated to change anything about their products.

I've said the same many times. I'm glad we can find common ground. Meanwhile, no customer is obligated to continue to pay for a product they don't enjoy. So as long as we both agree, then it's up to Blizzard to decide if they want the monthly sub money for those who don't find the game compelling to play without flight.

I'm a freedom kinda guy. I'm just expressing my opinions. I don't recall ever suggesting they were anything more than that. And I'll pay to play any game I find fun and compelling. I don't need your permission, though I'm sure you'll try to give it. I think at least 3 people in this thread already tried. I just try to give feedback where it's helpful. If Blizzard is wondering why I and people like me are cancelling subs, they can read threads on their sites and stuff on fan sites and see the reasons, and once again, it's up to them to decide what to do.

So unless you are trying to silence me and say I'm not allowed to share my opinion, please carry on with the discussion.

[Maudib]

So stop paying. It is as simple as that. Being a customer doesn't mean you get to dictate how a product is made.

Customers can ask for whatever they want but no company is obligated to change anything about their products.

I did 6 months ago, and only 2 months into the expansion. For me, the game sucks, totally sucks without flying at max level. It's that plain and simple.

It's upsetting because I have played this game for many years and this shift in how this feature is treated has ruined what was once a great joy.

Nothing lasts forever though... so I let it go. I truly thought I would come back when 7.2 was added... but with yet another rep grind to further delay it... I'm done. Legion was mediocre at best, and simply not worth playing another few months to earn flying for a mediocre expansion that is essentially irrelevant at this point.

[WowIsDead64]

What is no flying? I guess, it's apogee of alt-unfriendly content. Why? Because what is main purpose of having flying? To do content, you've already completed on your main, on your alts. Due to some reasons Blizzard have negative opinion about alts. They tend to think, that players start to play on alts, only when they have nothing to do on their main. So they add tons of time and RNG gated grind in order to make endless content. And of course they try to make playing alts as unbearable and pointless, as possible. This is wrong. It's all about reward/effort ratio. Developers just can't make enough endgame content, so in most cases all endgame content in MMO - is grind, i.e. doing the same thing again, again and again for really small reward. And grind, especially when RNG is involved - lacks sense of progression and accomplishment. But it's very subjective thing. I personally don't like RNG-based and grind-based endgame content, such as raids. I tend to stop at some point - when content stops being rewarding enough. And to start from scratch. That's why I love alts. Plus they're part of my RP.



Also I want to add, that Blizzard don't understand, that exploration - is viable kind of content for new players only. When you're new - then you want to try this and try that. But if you've played game during at least one xpack - you should already have chosen content, you like the most, and have stuck to it. I.e. if Blizzard assume, that when they release new xpack, all players will play the game, like they play it for the first time in their life - then they're fools. For seasoned player new xpack is nothing more, than just new content - it's not completely new game. So, seasoned player don't want to start everything completely from scratch - he wants to proceed directly to content, he like. So, this "We take things away from you only to force you to earn them again" principle doesn't work for him.

Simple thing. Currently I play Tanaan with flying and I enjoy this content. I just don't want to jump through some hops to "earn" ability to enjoy game the same way. I don't need this. All I need - is new content, new goals to accomplish. The reason, why I want it, is the same reason, why raiders don't want to waste time on leveling - they want to proceed directly to content, they like the most - i.e. raids. Do Blizzard gate raids for half of xpack in order to force raiders to "experience leveling/outdoor as intended"? No! For example Blizzard allow them to completely skip leveling! Same here.

[Ragedaug]

I did 6 months ago, and only 2 months into the expansion. For me, the game sucks, totally sucks without flying at max level. It's that plain and simple.

It's upsetting because I have played this game for many years and this shift in how this feature is treated has ruined what was once a great joy.

Nothing lasts forever though... so I let it go. I truly thought I would come back when 7.2 was added... but with yet another rep grind to further delay it... I'm done. Legion was mediocre at best, and simply not worth playing another few months to earn flying for a mediocre expansion that is essentially irrelevant at this point.

During the WoD no-flight time was the first time in 10 years I let my sub lapse. I always find it funny when people think they are being helpful by telling us to quit. We already are quitting. We are finding other stuff to play. Grinding and leveling alts without flight tends to be more chore than fun. Being stuck on the ground after I've already explored every inch of the map and performed every quest...isn't fun. At least in this player's opinion.

[Deleted]

^^^^^^^
This.

I am a pro flyer and I am NOT HAPPY with this "compromise" at all. Too much hassle for a QoL feature to do, which is unlocked so late that many will not even bother to come back to the game anymore. No-flying is one of the reasons why my guild is dead. Congratulations. -.-

[Thimagryn]

FACT is flying removes tools available to developers for storytelling. There is nothing else to add.

Flying is most effectively warranted for repeated content, and generally all content that has no impact on story. That's the conflict of the discussion. Repeated content is the only relevant content you can talk about with flying, considering there is no flying available for leveling content. What story is being told when you're asked to kill the same NPC for the hundredth time? The world is explored once, and when that's done everything is set on loop and the grind continues.

What story are you missing when flight is implemented? Did you not watch the NPCs do the same thing for the first 99 times?

[Sweetpeaz]

Well flying removes more than it adds, and untile it adds eqal to what it removes....
Its a unvalid argument.

You mean invalid? And you also mean it's subjectively your opinion? Because objectively flight doesn't take anything away from the game, it only allows the player to control their own travel.

[Deleted]

I am a pro flyer and I am NOT HAPPY with this "compromise" at all. Too much hassle for a QoL feature to do, which is unlocked so late that many will not even bother to come back to the game anymore. No-flying is one of the reasons why my guild is dead. Congratulations. -.-

Well that's a shit guild then

[pinkz]

They really have. By only enabling it when it doesn't matter anymore.

7.2 will enable flying, but it will be done after people have spent months on the Broken Isles doing their quests while not flying. After we unlock it, that will probably be it in terms of content, before they release the Argus patch. At that point we won't need to fly on the Broken Isles, because we'll be on Argus, which will probably be not flyable either.

It's just like with WoD, where we were only able to fly once nobody needed to anymore anyway. Because the expansion was over. When the flying patch came out, I had 2 days of gametime left. And I didn't renew my sub at that point and went on a 1-year break, because the expansion was over anyway.

This will be the standard now. Flying is gone.

that is dev IH way of punishing players after his failed reneg on flying in WOD. he said okay....but you have to do all this, this, this , this, wait, this this this, wait...

then they sold it to gaming news writers (who took it like a bass to a worm) that they did not want ot make flying a gold sink that doesn't affect gold strapped players and hinders others

in WOD i had flying unlocked 13-14 days (using no rep medallion) after patch 6.2 went live, blizz said they would turn on flying within days of 6.2 not weeks....well they went weeks near 2 months. so now i see the below and know their definition of days, weeks, and not so long. they blew turning on flying in WOD after 6.2 and this gives them a time lag window to turn on flying in legion...and then say oh, we beat it by 2 days and take near two months again

Flying

It will probably take at least a few weeks to unlock flying.
You will need to wait for Week 2 for Assaults to start.
You will need to hit Revered with the new faction as well.
It probably won't take as long as it did to get flying in Warlords.

so is it a few weeks? after the two weeks for assaults to start? and time to hit revered.....sounds like a month already