Patch 7.2 PTR - Build 23530

[Suggs]

That's because your content consists on doing LFR and doing Dalaran laps, and mine is competing for realm 1st and keeping within the world first 50 guilds.

Which was EASY before this endless farming crap. We only raided 4 days, 5 first 2 weeks, and then 1/week when farming, and we were stable in first 50. Now I had to rebuild from scratch just because Blizz ruined it with AP endless grind and legendary RNG, losing me loads and loads of friends and raiders.

Each action has consequences. Caps are good. End of story. If it doesn't matter to you, it's because you don't run the content we are.

Are you saying because you aim for realm first and you do mythics, top 50 bla bla bla you shouldnt have to do as much work to get it?!?
Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
If you want realm first and to be the best or whatever then you will have to work a fuck ton harder than any casual player will ever do.
Entitled much?

[Kanro]

Would you rather have literally nothing to do like you did in WoD?

Yeah, I want to sit in Dalaran and experience the game by flying to the raid every week.

[ComputerNerd]

You're trying to argue that something in the game, that's going to give increased chances at obtaining new legendaries isn't mandatory for anyone who wants to raid seriously. Your "its only a grind if you make it that way" comment is complete bullshit, I'm sorry, but its true. Its a grind for anyone who wants to and will continue to take this game seriously when other people rely on them to do their most for progression raiding. AP is certainly a grind for anyone who raids and for anyone that wants to do mythic raiding. Everything this entire expansion is a grind to get power advantages to get boss kills. If you're too ignorant to see the truth, its not my fault that you're casual scum.

No, the actual requirement as dictated by blizzard, and what players decide is mandatory are often very different and this is one such example.
As you just said, it is players seeking it, and therefore they make it a grind.
If you must dismiss anyone disagreeing with you as "casual", then it is you who is wilfully ignorant given like other elitists you misuse to dismiss anyone below your "standards".

Can't get someone to agree with you.
Call them a fanboy, call them a casual, etc.

You would have done exactly the same for a gear drop from any source, repeat it until you get what you want.
Be that for a standard epic if its an upgrade, or for a legendary,

[Zyky]

You would have done exactly the same for a gear drop from any source, repeat it until you get what you want.
Be that for a standard epic if its an upgrade, or for a legendary,

This right here is exactly the problem. There shouldn't be a way even if its called "optional" because it isn't optional by any means. When you put in distinct power advantages, that literally make or break a fight, those "optional" activities become mandatory. The same company saying its "optional" turns around and tunes the content around it, as if everyone has the best legendaries, max AP, full best gear from mythic+ dungeons. It's completely absurd. The expansion IS a grind, it IS forced content. Your raid group will NOT clear current content if everyone in the group doesn't at the very least max out AP and have decent legendaries. The Proof is in the statistics, under 100 guilds WORLDWIDE killed Mythic Helya in 6 weeks. Why? Because the content was tuned around having the best of everything. This was AFTER they nerfed the content 3 times that guilds finally started getting kills. So please, excuse me for calling you casual, because that's exactly how you sound acting as if you're a pretentious fanboy.

[Deleted]

I really do not get why ppl are bitching about whether the AP system is not a grind, clearly it is, how much of a grind is directly related to the type of raider that you are.

For a Hardcore mythic raider who is only interested in being in the top 50 world first guilds, i completely understand that maxing out everything is mandatory and therefore the most extreme measures must be taken to remain ahead or even with the curve..............blizzard truly have given you a hardcore gaming experience like it or not. So with the addition of the new traits in 7.2 you need to ask yourself do i really need to being doing this anymore, after all they are not forcing you to be a hardcore raider its personal choice. What you need to undestand is if the game is going to have any amount of longevity over an expansion to the median players, remember you are literally less than 1% of the total player base, there needs to be content to fill that void.

To the typical non hardcore but mythic raider (here is where i slot in) then this increase is another milestone to reach, and will be reached in differentiating amount of times around this player base. Mainly due to time available balance against work/home life etc. Sure its still a grind, but i do not see it as something that has to be mandatorily completed before we can begin mythic raiding, after all we are not on the bleeding edge of content. What it does give however is still progression outside of gear dropping, so even tho that trinket i have been waiting for hasn't dropped im still improving since i managed to level up some of my artifact this week, which in turn also helps the chances of the raid. Some guilds may take that AP grind more serious than others but in no means will they be approaching the hardcore mentality as in these types of guild they only raid a few times a week and again are not interested in FW just the challenge mythic raiding has to offer. For these types of raiders it is most likely that they will max out their AP at some point, purely due to the amount of content they are completing each week.

The same attitude can be really applied those more casual raiding guilds, by which i mean guilds that probably do not go into very much detail in vetting their members before joining, and indeed raid for the fun of it, probably maxing out at HC level. The grind for them is the same as above, but they will have less focus on it or maybe even less time but the grind is still achievable given time.

And then there are the LFR guys, sure i get what ppl are saying that they will never see a completed artifact in the time of the content patch, but that is their choice these like the Hardcore raiders are at the other end of the scale, hell i doubt many of them even come on these forums and dont really give a flying fuck about AP, but again that is their choice.

So in summary although the more hardcore playerbase among us see the AP system as a massive grind it is necessary for use peeps in the middle, who make up 90% of the actual raiding population, to keep us going with content and progression. Sorry if you are among the elite hardcore crowd, but that is your choice to be there entirely. I also get that you just want to kill the bosses first and all the other shit is just a check point you must put up with before you can get to said fights, but what are you actually now saying, that hardcore raiding has become too hardcore?

At the end of the day this game is about making money for the company, and to keep the subscriptions rolling in each month it must keep that content interesting and where the money is, is in the brackets i described above, its basic economics you sell to the masses and don't pander to the minority.