"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" - Look at it now...

[MiiiMiii]

"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" people said.
Blizzard listened, and made gear barely matter at all in PvP.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?
Cuz all I see is people saying PvP is more boring than ever.

And don't come here saying it is boring because x spec is OP. There will ALWAYS be a spec that is performing better than others in 1v1 situations. Now you just can't outgear it.

No good gear rewards in PvP = no reason to do it.

After unlocking all PvP talents, we get no satisfaction from gaining paragon levels. It's the worst system you have ever had.

It's an MMORPG. The whole point of this whole genre is to get better gear. And when you get better gear you are supposed to be excited.
I get a gear upgrade and I am like "I guess this is an ilvl upgrade, I'll equip it, woo so fun I am now 0.000001% stronger time to beat some horde ass".

And don't even get me started on how stupid this system is when it comes to World PvP. Again, the mythic raiders dominate World PvP. Hell, even random heroic dungeon players perform better than people farming random battlegrounds. I guess Blizz still thinks World PvP is not real PvP, it does not belong in this game and it is supposed to be dominated by mythic raiders.

Give me a system making me farm day out and in. The more you farm, the better gear you get. In the end, the people that farm the very most, they get gear that is so powerful you dominate everyone not only in Battlegrounds, but also in World PvP.

No gear =\= fun. Farming for exciting huge gear improvements == fun.

[Deleted]

I like the new PvP system; it’s actually the most fun I’ve had in PvP since Cataclysm. I’ve also had gear rewards and a couple of legendry’s.

Did someone rek you so hard you felt the need to post about it in a 3rd party website?

[Bytch]

Dont fret. They're bringing back Resil for you guys.

[Deleted]

Gear and artifacts now impact pvp more than gear ever did in the past during this decade. Pvp gear was easy & fast to obtain and reaching an equal playing field didn't take very long.

What they took away was the option to customize your character's stats, but stat and damage differences are still there. This is only going to get worse with 7.2 as the 35+ traits are gonna unlock in pvp as well.

[cparle87]

Gear and artifacts now impact pvp more than gear ever did in the past during this decade. Pvp gear was easy & fast to obtain and reaching an equal playing field didn't take very long.

What they took away was the option to customize your character's stats, but stat and damage differences are still there. This is only going to get worse with 7.2 as the 35+ traits are gonna unlock in pvp as well.

Didn't they change their mind about the 35+ working in pvp like a week after they first announced they were considering it?

[Rotted]

I enjoy the new system, I can step into a battleground and be on a semi even playing field, previous expansions you step into a bg and you get stomped by geared players.

Although I will agree, now there is a prestige system of sorts, there should be some form of match making based on that, this would allow for a gear element to come back into pvp

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Gear actually matters now more than ever.

[Allenseiei]

Honestly I am fine with both, Skills make this game more serious i nterms of e-sports while gear allows retaining that RPG feel of growing stronger and being rewarded for effort.

What I dislike is the continuous superiority of non-PvP related activities for PvP battles.

Started playing in Cataclysm and managed to win 1vs5 Wintergrasp due to being equipped with Endgame Raid Tier and special Effects weapons. Later on in Pandaland I had full PvP set and could not even reduce the HP of a Boomkin who had Warforged Siege of Orgrimmar Mythic gear. His Heal over Time ticked quicker than my whole rotation; eventually he got bored and killed me with two spells.

Warlords of Draenor was better, but someone with the Legend Ring and PvE Set bonuses like instant Aimed Shots was still superior to Gladiator players.
In Legion, only ilvl matters and PvE has the highest sources for it. -SAD!

So you are saying that World PvP is unbalanced? It has always been unbalanced and will always will be. In fact Blizzard has already stated that World PvP is meant to be unbalanced.
Cataclysm Wintergrasp? Really? No wonder you won since no good pvpers played wintergrasp in Cataclysm (or WotLK for that matter).
Pandaland PvE bonuses and ilvl were capped in instanced pvp.
WoD PvE gear set bonuses only worked in non competitive pvp, and the legendary ring only worked in Ashran.
Legion PvE sources are higher because you have to maintain and manage raids to get them or go high 5 man mythic +. It's a logistics thing. In PvP if you have decent rating you should get decent flow of gear constantly. Both PvP and PvE have consistent RNG so don't go that route.

[Livevil]

When you go and swap gear with artifact and honor talents, which take way longer to farm, it's kind of hypocritical to claim "oh, it's so easy to get into pvp now".

I tried doing a few bgs earlier this week on a fresh alt. On average i had about 500k-600k less health compared to a geared character of the same spec and my dmg was absolute trash. Just the fact that in order to compete you have to farm 30+ artifact levels and most honor talents makes you lose interest. Not gonna even talk about the wpvp quests shitshow.

How is this supposed to be better compared to the previous system where you only had to farm a single honor set?(27k honor)

[DeicideUH]

Reducing gear factor in PvP was a good change. People are shooting at the wrong reasons why PvP is bad in Legion, which are:

- Artifact Power. Your artifact level gives you extra damage, utility and health. So, it's a huge source of imbalance in place of old gear problems.
- Rewards: While gear plays little role in instanced PvP, ilvl from PvP activities is still too low compared to PvE activities. Thus, you are forced to PvE in order to get better gear and more AP...
- Class imbalance: some specs are too versatile compared to others. Toolkits need to be better balanced.

[Deleted]

in my opinion they really fu**** up with the hole pvp system.
the gearsystem is just bad in all aspects, it doesn't feel like an rpg anymore cause u don't feel any upgrades from gear.

they destroyed the hole world pvp & duelling community cause in world pvp the most classes can oneshot, who see's first - win.

as an pvp'er u should be rewarded for doing it and be stronger in that gear u earned as an pve'er.
Or how would it feel when pvp gear were stronger in pve? - doens't feel right.

I don't pvp anymore, and i was a pvp only player since vanilla.
And it's not only me, all my friends quit pvp.
Pvp never felt this bad, WoD was bad and i thought it can't get worse - but yeah, here we are.

[Nero Stormchester]

Yes, pvp is much more fun now, thanks. Sorry you can't overgear your actual rating and get boosted by gear.

[Dundebuns]

If you want gear to matter just go gank people at a flight master like all the other pro's with awesome gear do.

[killbill]

Can someone explain to me why new pvp system make it easier for new people to join? In the past when I joined bg my problem was only people with better gear than me, but now aside from gears, I am also at loss against veteran with full unlocked talents.

[Omnitek]

Talking about WOD, you could get geared running Ashran in 2-3 days on a new alt. Compare that to the artifact and honor talents grind now.

[DeicideUH]

Talking about WOD, you could get geared running Ashran in 2-3 days on a new alt. Compare that to the artifact and honor talents grind now.

Honor talent grinds are not that bad. You can get the entire first column in under 2 days. And in 7.2 they'll reduce Honor needed for the honor levels before Prestige 1, so it will be much faster.

Artifact power is a big problem, thought.

[Pua]

Reducing gear factor in PvP was a good change. People are shooting at the wrong reasons why PvP is bad in Legion, which are:

- Artifact Power. Your artifact level gives you extra damage, utility and health. So, it's a huge source of imbalance in place of old gear problems.
- Rewards: While gear plays little role in instanced PvP, ilvl from PvP activities is still too low compared to PvE activities. Thus, you are forced to PvE in order to get better gear and more AP...
- Class imbalance: some specs are too versatile compared to others. Toolkits need to be better balanced.

This is a pretty good summary, actually.

In the end, removing the need for gear in PvP was a good plan; it just didn't hit the money. Gearing in PvE is much easier, which means those who don't PvP will have the best gear for it (which is just weird, and extremely demotivational), and the artifact grind is horribly painful and making too significant a difference.

I don't know. I just happen to think that the entire gamut of PvP experiences and reward vehicles need looked at again from the ground up. It can't be okay that a Mythic raider just happens to be geared amazingly for PvP, while someone consistently playing rated battlegrounds or arenas will forever be behind him.

[Manabomb]

Gear and artifacts now impact pvp more than gear ever did in the past during this decade. Pvp gear was easy & fast to obtain and reaching an equal playing field didn't take very long.

What they took away was the option to customize your character's stats, but stat and damage differences are still there. This is only going to get worse with 7.2 as the 35+ traits are gonna unlock in pvp as well.

Uhhh. During current season, getting current season gear was not "fast". It's always been about a 90 hour honor grind in previous expansions just to catch up to last seasons gear (Or get starter gear if it's a new expansion). And that's just to get to the point where farming conquest gear from RBG/Arena is viable. From there it's a 10 week grind fighting conquest cap to just get to the current season gear.

So no. Getting gear for pvp has never been "easy", just stupidly grindy to the point where casual players went "fuck that" and stuck to PvE content.

Also, customizing stats? Really? That sounds like that can be easily fixed with some sort of reforging mechanism, instead of shooting casual PvPers in the foot.

Edit: I don't understand why "PvPer" suddenly means "has all the time in the world to be the best at the game". There are casual PvPers too, and we make up a much larger portion of the PvP population than those willing to subject themselves to ridiculous grinds.

[Deleted]

It's true there's no point in "farming" if you want progress -untill 7.2 where we get all artifact traits in pvp. However you can also do pve for same progress.

Personally for me it is the issue with balancing pvp that ruins it. It's all balanced around 3s- which us good in arena- but miserable in bgs.
This is one of those times where I have to tell myself "arms warrior in good and bad times.."

[Manabomb]

It's true there's no point in "farming" if you want progress -untill 7.2 where we get all artifact traits in pvp. However you can also do pve for same progress.

Personally for me it is the issue with balancing pvp that ruins it. It's all balanced around 3s- which us good in arena- but miserable in bgs.
This is one of those times where I have to tell myself "arms warrior in good and bad times.."

If you honestly think Blizzard wasn't going to balance the game around their premiere game mode (3s), then you're kidding yourself.

PvP class balance will never be balanced around bgs. There may be some minor design influence to keep some classes from doing "extremely" well in bgs, but you can expect the vast majority of balancing tweaks to come from the perspective of a competitive 3v3 environment.