1. #1
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    What should I do? (Pyrotex Ignition Cloth)

    Hi all, Fire Mage here like most people. I've just dropped by to ask your opinion on my latest legendary, the Pyrotex ignition cloth.

    I have not had the best luck with legendaries. The Pyrotex ignition cloth is my fourth, before that I got Norgannon's Foresight(sigh), Sephuz' Secret (double sigh) and finally something halfway decent with Shard of the Exodar.

    I got the cloth yesterday. I don't know what to do with it.

    I've been running Shard of the Exodar and Sephuz's Secret (a stat stick for want of a better replacement) and now I have a legendary that MIGHT be a throughput increase. But pyrotex works by decreasing the cooldown of Combustion, just like Kindling. And that would suggest to me that I should take Kindling again to get the most out of pyrotex.

    But if I take Kindling I'll probably have to grab Rune of Power again.

    In other words, Pyrotex threatens to send me back into our 7.0 playstyle just a few weeks after I escaped it. I really hated the cooldown focused, rune of power chained fire mage I had to play in 7.0, but without any other options other than Sephuz (worse than useless despite what they promised) I can't see any other alternatives.

    Does anyone if Kindling and rune of power are required for Pyrotex to operate effectively? Hell, I'd be fine with just Kindling...I just want to ensure I don't have to use Rune of Power if at all possible.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Hi all, Fire Mage here like most people. I've just dropped by to ask your opinion on my latest legendary, the Pyrotex ignition cloth.

    I have not had the best luck with legendaries. The Pyrotex ignition cloth is my fourth, before that I got Norgannon's Foresight(sigh), Sephuz' Secret (double sigh) and finally something halfway decent with Shard of the Exodar.

    I got the cloth yesterday. I don't know what to do with it.

    I've been running Shard of the Exodar and Sephuz's Secret (a stat stick for want of a better replacement) and now I have a legendary that MIGHT be a throughput increase. But pyrotex works by decreasing the cooldown of Combustion, just like Kindling. And that would suggest to me that I should take Kindling again to get the most out of pyrotex.

    But if I take Kindling I'll probably have to grab Rune of Power again.

    In other words, Pyrotex threatens to send me back into our 7.0 playstyle just a few weeks after I escaped it. I really hated the cooldown focused, rune of power chained fire mage I had to play in 7.0, but without any other options other than Sephuz (worse than useless despite what they promised) I can't see any other alternatives.

    Does anyone if Kindling and rune of power are required for Pyrotex to operate effectively? Hell, I'd be fine with just Kindling...I just want to ensure I don't have to use Rune of Power if at all possible.
    I only have sephuz and pyrotex but in fights its really good to keep the combustion up.

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    you're going to have to sim it to know what talents are best

  4. #4
    If you want to "optimize" the legendaries use, you're stuck with RoP. Otherwise it's terrible, well..it's terrible regardless.

  5. #5
    The gloves are trash even with kindling. The mastery nerf to combustion killed the chance of the gloves ever being used.

  6. #6
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dylemma View Post
    If you want to "optimize" the legendaries use, you're stuck with RoP. Otherwise it's terrible, well..it's terrible regardless.
    I had a hard long think about it and came to the same conclusion, I would essentially have to revert to the 7.0 playstyle.

    I banked the gloves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brogar View Post
    The gloves are trash even with kindling. The mastery nerf to combustion killed the chance of the gloves ever being used.
    Just makes me curse my luck even more. Disaster of a system.

  7. #7
    Just put loot spec on Arcane & reroll
    Fire is dead in raids, only good for M+ but Arcane is just as good there

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
    Just put loot spec on Arcane & reroll
    Fire is dead in raids, only good for M+ but Arcane is just as good there
    fire is definitely not dead in raids lol..

  9. #9
    With the legendaries that you have, the gloves are NOT trash. Are the gloves one of the lower simming legendary? Sure. You will sim ~ 660k dps with gloves and 700k with bracers on ST.

    While the best answer is to sim yourself, you can also play RoP, cinderstorm with the gloves and get decent results.

    ALSO, with the gloves every 3rd meteor lines up perfectly with combustion as it becomes ~1:30 seconds so 45 sec cd on meteor

    1st combust meteor
    2nd meteor (45 seconds)
    2nd combustion (90 seconds) 3rd meteor
    (with shard and gloves, playing with meteor will be your best dps ST, but as always sim yourself..).

    FUN fact: On aoe fights, the gloves beat the bracers by a large margin (30k, lul). Source. https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=4&t=2611


    scroll down.

    With cleave and priority damage, the gloves rank 3rd in dps. (people focus too much on ST nowadays).

    Once again, the difference between legendaries is ~50k (from the lowest simming to best) for an average player.
    Last edited by Apaylo; 2017-02-14 at 01:58 AM.

  10. #10
    I disagree entirely with the above post. Bank the gloves, trying to make them work is not worth it and you are better off with the tier gloves.

    Regarding ST damage. If you want to make the gloves work you need to take RoP which is a ST dps loss and stationary risk compared to Mirror Images. The dps you gain from making the gloves work are lost by taking an inferior talent build. I actually lose ST dps trying to make the gloves work compared to using a different legendary setup.

    Regarding AoE sims the above person is referring to generally show a false image. Basically the sims are saying two things. First is that the gloves are worst in all out 6min AoE damage done to all targets. Second is that in a situation of constant AoE where your aim is to maximize boss damage the gloves pull slightly ahead of legendaries like the headpiece and AoE trinket.

    However these situations do not exist. There are no 6min AoE fights with prio damage to a boss. AoE in real encounters are short and bursty in which you want to burn adds down. With that in mind the gloves are far inferior with regards to our other talents and legendaries (head or trinket). Take Spellblade Aluriel as an example. The sims are saying that if we were constantly killing adds but mainly trying to maximize our damage on the boss the gloves would come in 3rd. Which is basically a useless scenario because in reality we want to burst down adds asap without spending combustion on AoE but saving it to maximize boss damage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by retsiem View Post
    fire is definitely not dead in raids lol..
    Show me a decent fire mage in a decent guild that gets consistant top 5 dps logs in Mythic raids
    And don't come bragging with Skorpyron logs, that one doesn't count cause that's a free AoE boss boss

    Just look @ at the results from the top guilds in the world, fire mages are bottom and by a HUGE margin compare to the top dps'ers, again Skorpyron doesn't count

  12. #12
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
    Show me a decent fire mage in a decent guild that gets consistant top 5 dps logs in Mythic raids
    And don't come bragging with Skorpyron logs, that one doesn't count cause that's a free AoE boss boss

    Just look @ at the results from the top guilds in the world, fire mages are bottom and by a HUGE margin compare to the top dps'ers, again Skorpyron doesn't count
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...871&dataset=95
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...862&dataset=95
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...863&dataset=95

    so on three of the tighter dps checks, fire does pretty well. "dead"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
    Show me a decent fire mage in a decent guild that gets consistant top 5 dps logs in Mythic raids
    And don't come bragging with Skorpyron logs, that one doesn't count cause that's a free AoE boss boss

    Just look @ at the results from the top guilds in the world, fire mages are bottom and by a HUGE margin compare to the top dps'ers, again Skorpyron doesn't count
    not brokenly OP so it's a dead spec, right?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
    Show me a decent fire mage in a decent guild that gets consistant top 5 dps logs in Mythic raids
    And don't come bragging with Skorpyron logs, that one doesn't count cause that's a free AoE boss boss

    Just look @ at the results from the top guilds in the world, fire mages are bottom and by a HUGE margin compare to the top dps'ers, again Skorpyron doesn't count
    Show us some arcane mages that do this. You claimed that people should move to arcane which isn't really doing better in raids.

    As for the OP, I don't understand why you're so convinced that you'd want to combine Kindling and Pyretex as they have no synergy. If Kindling for example increased Combustion damage then it would be a multiplicative synergy of more Combustions + more damage per Combustion but that's not the case and Kindling and Pyretex are simply additive cooldown reduction without synergy so if Kindling isn't your best talent without Pyretex there's no reason to think the legendary would change anything.

    Rune of Power synergy would indeed be real so there's that to worry about but you'll want to use RoP for many Nighthold fights anyway as Mirror Images do nothing for aoe/cleave and since that's the only reason to bring mages to raids now you (unfortunately) should be ready to use RoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For the Augur DPS check you'd really want to have the execute belt legendary, though, and presumably a lot of the mages with good parses are getting it because of the belt + bloodlust during execute.

  15. #15
    Oh look you've still managed to find middle of the pack logs on AOE fights, where Fire is suppose to be STRONG, and we're still not on top!
    Are you truely blind to our issue here or just believe that Fire mages are doing fine? Not to mention that those logs come from having the Legendary Helm / Belt.

    As to why I say you should go Arcane or Frost, it performs better overall, right now top players still play Fire as they have legendaries Helm / Belt / Wrists for Fire and they lack Frost / Arcane legendaries, but if they had access to them or legendaries simply didn't exist, they wouldn't be playing fire

    Also @Vichan, I'm asking to be brokenly OP like shadowpriests were, but when you look at fights like Krosus / Thrilliax / Botanist, which are Single Target fights, we're hugging the bottom of the meter with almost 200k dps difference with the top person!

  16. #16
    Just got back into the game, maining mage and these were my first legendary, I am very sad. :l

    I would have taken a defensive item over this.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Hi all, Fire Mage here like most people. I've just dropped by to ask your opinion on my latest legendary, the Pyrotex ignition cloth.

    I have not had the best luck with legendaries. The Pyrotex ignition cloth is my fourth, before that I got Norgannon's Foresight(sigh), Sephuz' Secret (double sigh) and finally something halfway decent with Shard of the Exodar.

    I got the cloth yesterday. I don't know what to do with it.

    I've been running Shard of the Exodar and Sephuz's Secret (a stat stick for want of a better replacement) and now I have a legendary that MIGHT be a throughput increase. But pyrotex works by decreasing the cooldown of Combustion, just like Kindling. And that would suggest to me that I should take Kindling again to get the most out of pyrotex.

    But if I take Kindling I'll probably have to grab Rune of Power again.

    In other words, Pyrotex threatens to send me back into our 7.0 playstyle just a few weeks after I escaped it. I really hated the cooldown focused, rune of power chained fire mage I had to play in 7.0, but without any other options other than Sephuz (worse than useless despite what they promised) I can't see any other alternatives.

    Does anyone if Kindling and rune of power are required for Pyrotex to operate effectively? Hell, I'd be fine with just Kindling...I just want to ensure I don't have to use Rune of Power if at all possible.
    Use Secret and Warp Ring. Dragon's Breath can proc the ring so you're really not in that bad of a spot. You can control that haste buff with DB so you can enhance your combustion phase every time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glas View Post
    Just got back into the game, maining mage and these were my first legendary, I am very sad. :l

    I would have taken a defensive item over this.
    Congrats, your 2nd and 3rd legendaries come much quicker than everything afterwards. It's an expansion of hope and disappointment, harden yourself now or hibernate for another year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliddqvist View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree. When go to do look more like, you have to consider as decided the need to go want to look. If you merely decided as to think to half of that, you might as well go to a floor towards as the far. I can't believe you deny the use of further deciding to even want to do look more like, when the rest of us have decided to need a want. Go ahead, go want to do look more like further than a half. It gets you nowhere, I can tell you that.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I had a hard long think about it and came to the same conclusion, I would essentially have to revert to the 7.0 playstyle.

    I banked the gloves.



    Just makes me curse my luck even more. Disaster of a system.
    Gloves are the best legendary you have from the ones you listed. They sim 3rd highest.

    RoP will not be better on ST, so gloves won't change your playstyle at all. You will still using RoP for AoE fights only.

    Gloves give you more stats than both rings combined. Sephuz can't be activated on many bosses to be worth.

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