Best opener with Mantle of the Master Assassin + Draught of Souls as Assassination?

[SSJones]

My log from last night, my NBF did 7.5 million damage on Krosus heroic. It's not too shabby, but I completely agree that DOS is superior. With my shoulders, my understanding is I'll probably get 6million(ish) damage from my opening use. The next use at 1:20 would put me over NBF performance.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10

No, it wouldn't. You cannot directly compare proc damage when they have different stats on the base trinket. You have to convert it to DPS, and use your stat weights to get an idea for how much the stats are worth as well, to get any kind of accurate comparison. DoS with shoulders is probably better, but that's an inaccurate way to compare them.

[Won7on]

No, it wouldn't. You cannot directly compare proc damage when they have different stats on the base trinket. You have to convert it to DPS, and use your stat weights to get an idea for how much the stats are worth as well, to get any kind of accurate comparison. DoS with shoulders is probably better, but that's an inaccurate way to compare them.

This. I need to make some sort of bot that catches any time people compare trinkets by % of damage, and calls them out on their basic lack of understanding of theorycrafting. So tiring seeing that on every thread on this forum.

If a trinket existed that was 20% of your damage, but had the passive "Your Agility is reduced by 50%", would you use it? I mean, it does like 20% of your damage!

- - - Updated - - -

garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>KB>mut>vendetta+vanish>envenom>mut>garrote>envenom>mut>DOS >envenom
|--------6 sec crit-----------------------------| |----------------9 sec crit-------------------------------------|

You use Kingsbane outside of Vendetta, refresh Garrote way earlier than you need to, and delay DoS for no real reason.

I'm 99% sure this is a better opener:

[Deleted]

I agree Won7on 100%. My problem with the fond is it so random, if it consistent or atleast most of the time did x number dmg range it would due to stats be far superior. Problem is it's so random. It's like outlaw but with only possible to roll 1 or 6 rolls. First 5 fights it suck then you get god mode next fight.

[Elyzibeth]

[QUOTE=Won7on;44761288]This. I need to make some sort of bot that catches any time people compare trinkets by % of damage, and calls them out on their basic lack of understanding of theorycrafting. So tiring seeing that on every thread on this forum.

If a trinket existed that was 20% of your damage, but had the passive "Your Agility is reduced by 50%", would you use it? I mean, it does like 20% of your damage!

[COLOR="#417394"][SIZE=1]

I don't necessarily agree that that is a better opener. I am easily able to get in an extra move before the vendetta to make more of my energy and the benefit of vendetta's energy return. The second garrote, I could take it or leave it, but the purpose is to get a pandemic refresh of a bleed that is buffed 125% of it's normal damage (is it worth the energy, not 100% sure, but Swol had built an open on AMR and did say it came out as a small gain). With the opener I linked, you miss the first tick of KB with no crit buff, but you catch all the final ticks of KB in the crit window. In the log above, you can see KB 2 sec before vanish (9 seconds) for a total of 11 seconds, so you're going to miss a guaranteed crit on at least the last tick of KB. I'd be willing to bet yours produces larger KB hits, mine produces bigger KB ticks, it's probably a wash overall, or so minute a person would never be able to tell.

I apologize for not including the fact that my NBF has agility on it versus the DOS with Haste. I'm at work and occasionally forget something, but it was a very valid point.

[Won7on]

I don't necessarily agree that that is a better opener. I am easily able to get in an extra move before the vendetta to make more of my energy and the benefit of vendetta's energy return.

Both of us still do a total of 4 Envenoms in the crit window, but in your case, 1 Envenom and Kingsbane (the 2nd hardest-hitting ability we have) aren't buffed by Vendetta. I don't see how that's better. I have 4 Envenoms + Kingsbane, all with 100% crit and 30% inc damage.

Not to mention that if BotA procs on the opener, you want to Vendetta ASAP as well, not delay it another 3-4 seconds.

[Remielx]

I have two questions for u guys.Do u castsequence ur rotation or just spam the abilities and the second one is what is the rotation when vanish isnt lined up with kb ??Atm i am using Elyzibeth opener using this /castsequence reset=30 Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate, Envenom, Kingsbane, Mutilate, Vanish, Vendetta, Envenom, Mutilate, Garrote, Envenom, Draught of Souls i got around 1.7m-2m but after the initial burst i get confused on the rotation especially when vanish is up.Also when u need to swap target do u guys swap poisons (agonizing >deadly ) ? Any help is welcome.And btw thanks Elyzibeth for the post in us wow forum very helpfull too bad that u need to have us account in order to reply there

[Zulmaan]

I have 4 Envenoms + Kingsbane, all with 100% crit and 30% inc damage.

you kb at 5.5 and kb ends therefore at 19.5
yes you have 100% vendetta for kb
but how do you have 100% crit for the full duration of kb?
the crit buff ends around 16.25 so your last kb ticks which deal more dmg than the first aren't buffed by crit (if I understand something wrong please correct/explain)

that's why elyzibeth and me put kb before vendetta to sacrifice the 30% buff for the 100% buff for the full duration

[Andoris]

I received a 900 Gnawed Thumb Ring today and was wondering where I'd put that in the opener(I have shoulders/boots/DoS/CoF/2MA relics and 1 env dmg relic)??

I know the tooltip says "increases healing and magic damage by 5% for 12 seconds-3 min cd" but from the research I've done, it MAY be all damage, including physical.

Seems like this could be a sweet boost

[Won7on]

you kb at 5.5 and kb ends therefore at 19.5
yes you have 100% vendetta for kb
but how do you have 100% crit for the full duration of kb?
the crit buff ends around 16.25 so your last kb ticks which deal more dmg than the first aren't buffed by crit (if I understand something wrong please correct/explain)

I was referring to the initial hit of KB, which tends to be the hardest-hitting part unless you get some godlike poison application RNG.

[Andoris]

A

I received a 900 Gnawed Thumb Ring today and was wondering where I'd put that in the opener(I have shoulders/boots/DoS/CoF/2MA relics and 1 env dmg relic)??

I know the tooltip says "increases healing and magic damage by 5% for 12 seconds-3 min cd" but from the research I've done, it MAY be all damage, including physical.

Seems like this could be a sweet boost

Anyone???

[Deleted]

A Suggestion try using the first Envenom before KB for the initial Kb proc and include another muti before vanish /vendetta in order to envenom directly after ull have the time for garotte>mut >envenom after before popping DOS

[Remielx]

After i got the shoulders my dps fell i havent find the right rotation yet..Any insights on what to do ?

[Andoris]

After i got the shoulders my dps fell i havent find the right rotation yet..Any insights on what to do ?

Mine did too at first, it take a lot of practice and you have to pay more attention.

You have a much longer opener now and that can be tricky if the tank is moving the boss before you complete it, especially if you have DoS.

Rotation is the same except:
Pool hard before each vanish and make sure to garrotte and get as many envenoms in as possible.
At the 4 min mark(where vanish lines up with DoS and usually ven/kb) you wait a few seconds and pool hard and then more or less do your opener again.
Make sure to use DoS when you know you won't die in fire or the boss won't be moved.

I feel blessed to have shoulders/bracers/boots and BIS all sots/relics(cept bracers), and I like a challenge, but honestly, I think I preferred turning my brain off with bracers/boots vs shoulders/boots for st. I still use bracers/boots for skorp/bot/spellblade.

[Squirl]

After i got the shoulders my dps fell i havent find the right rotation yet..Any insights on what to do ?

You're probably better off getting some logs together and making your own thread.

[Elyzibeth]

After i got the shoulders my dps fell i havent find the right rotation yet..Any insights on what to do ?

garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>KB>mut>vanish+vendetta>envenom>mut>garrote>envenom> use DOS if you have it, or continue mut/envenom spam. That is what I do and it works very well.

Won7on uses a different opener, you can see the picture of it above in the thread. A friend of mine and I have discussed his versus the one above at length and both believe the one I listed is slightly better for now (it's an energy efficiency vs. buffed crits debate), we do believe come 7.2 his will be superior due to the change in energy return from vendetta. Using EITHER of the openers will net you great results, guaranteed!

[Jiggawatt]

I wonder if it would be better to use Draught immediately after vanishing since it doesn't break stealth.
Perhaps something like:
garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>vendetta>KB>mut>envenom>vanish + DoS>mut>envenom>mut>garrote>envenom>mut...

Thoughts?

[henkish]

I wonder if it would be better to use Draught immediately after vanishing since it doesn't break stealth.
Perhaps something like:
garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>vendetta>KB>mut>envenom>vanish + DoS>mut>envenom>mut>garrote>envenom>mut...

Thoughts?

Using it in stealth means not autoattacking, which means not proccing poisons and adding to doing KB damage. Def not worth

[Zabatakis]

A


Anyone???

Currently it does to 5% dmg flat (including physical) but its unknown if that is intentional. As to where it should go in the opener, I can't say but would imagine right before your first envenom after the vanish. If you have DoS then you definately want it for that.

[Jiggawatt]

Using it in stealth means not autoattacking, which means not proccing poisons and adding to doing KB damage. Def not worth

"Def not worth" might be an overstatement.
Draught is only 3 seconds long, which in most cases is about 3-4 melee attacks, maybe 6 during Bloodlust.
Do those 3-4 melee attacks out weight the benefit of extending your 100% crit period by another 3 seconds and ensuring that all Draught hits crit? This also would also ensure that the crit period is active during the last ticks of KB (If you use it 2 seconds after KB). It also gives you some time to pool energy to spam mutilates to increase the KB dmg.

We might be splitting hairs here, and the advantages could be minuscule...but hey, that's what theorycrafting is about.

[Andoris]

Using it in stealth means not autoattacking, which means not proccing poisons and adding to doing KB damage. Def not worth

This is a joke right?

Suggeting to this guy that he not use DoS in the shoulder/stealthed/crit window is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Having it 100% crit is crucial. I personally wouldn't use DoS right after vanish, but you absolutely use it in the crit window.