Best opener with Mantle of the Master Assassin + Draught of Souls as Assassination?

[Zulmaan]

with the crit window now being back to the intended 6s, what's stronger dmg output of the the below after we vanish?

1. Vanish with 4-5CP -- Env/Rup -- followed by filling max amount of Mut-Env within crit window -- then DoS
2. Vanish with 4-5CP -- Env/Rup -- followed by DoS fully within crit window -- then fit 1 Mut-Env
3. Or something else?

depends on your numbers...which itemlev does your dos have? etc.

take the numbers for a full crt muti, a 4cp crt env, 1 dos use with crt and calc the dps for each approach

my advice is to use a 5cp finisher for more dos dmg (2% more ap through sot)...personally I do the 4-5 finisher before the vanish then garrote, muti, 5cp finisher, dos during the vanish window (subterfuge)

[ElvisOnMars]

depends on your numbers...which itemlev does your dos have?

fortunately, a good one - hc910, which equals to mythic version in dmg.
thx for advice. i ended up with the same solution – exiting vanish with 5p envenom, however, as we then build a new 5p finisher (gar-mut), the tail of DoS cast will be off the crit window for ~2s for me.

it's either me being a slowpoke as new to shoulders, or the latency

[Elyzibeth]

Here's the open that I've come up with and It seems to perform very well. This allows you to pretty much get all of your DOS into the crit window.

Subterfuge:
Garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > KB > mut > envenom > "MUT > MUT" > (wait until KB has 6-7 seconds left on its dot duration and then do one of the two following options)

If "mut>mut" made 5 CPS then:
vanish > envenom > mut > garrote > DOS > envenom

If "mut>mut" made 4 CPS then:
vanish > garrote > envenom > mut > DOS > envenom

[Master Guns]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but what's the best opener with just the mantle? My other legendary is sadly Sephuz.

[Zulmaan]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but what's the best opener with just the mantle? My other legendary is sadly Sephuz.

same but with muti/env spam instead of dos use during vanish crt window as long as you use subterfuge

[Master Guns]

This is my current opener I've been using for a while now. I'm 884, and do 650k st and parse within 1% of my Ilvl. I only asked because I was wondering if there was something that I could change, but after trying yours, I do less DPS and less burst. Here's mine from stealth

Prepot-garrote-mut (for bleed 2pc)-rupture-vendetta-mut to 5 cp-vanish (nightstalker)-rupture-mut to 3 or 4 cp-envenom-kingsbane-mut to 4 or 5-envenom

Repeat, keep garrote up 100% and my rupture uptime is usually 98%+. This opener (combined with hero and old war and 885 faulty countermeasure I never fail to reach 1m dps and sustain at least 650k. That's not high, but for my gear and ilvl it is very well. I've never had a opener top this burst that I've tried. Kingsbane gets the entire duration in vendetta.

[Deleted]

i like this opener:
garrote - mut - 5rupture - mut - vendetta - 4envenom - kingbane - (crit buff fades).
mut - vanish - 5envenom - mut - DoS - 4envenom - mut - (crit buff fades).
garrote - 5envenom.

[Deleted]

Hello
I just got Legendary Shoulders, and have some questions:
1. What talents, NS or sub? Im reading some guides etc. but I can't find info after fix (some peoples said NS, some sub)
2. What is the best opener with DoS (910ilvl)? Im trying Garrote->Mut->Rupture->Mut->Vendetta->Envenom->Kingsbane->Mut->Envenom->Mut->Mut->Vanish->Envenom-DoS
3. How the trotation should look like when Vanish is up (what CD should I save)?

My second legendary is Zoldyck


909 ilvl / 24% crit / 165% mast

[Deleted]

Hello
I just got Legendary Shoulders, and have some questions:
1. What talents, NS or sub? Im reading some guides etc. but I can't find info after fix (some peoples said NS, some sub)
2. What is the best opener with DoS (910ilvl)? Im trying Garrote->Mut->Rupture->Mut->Vendetta->Envenom->Kingsbane->Mut->Envenom->Mut->Mut->Vanish->Envenom-DoS
3. How the trotation should look like when Vanish is up (what CD should I save)?

My second legendary is Zoldyck


909 ilvl / 24% crit / 165% mast

From my thread where "Lazyyrogue" answered me, it might answer some of your questions :

With Sub (which i use) i wait until 2~3 seconds of garrote coming off CD, get to 5CP, Vanish, Envenom > Garrote > Mut Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Enveom (if possible due to energy). Always go in with 4-5 CP and pool as much as possible, this is where vendetta is a dream is its close, and it usually is thanks to boots/CoF + 2x MA. 80%+ of my vanishes line up with everything, unless a boss is close to dead, in which case i yolo it (sub 5%).

With NS get to 5CP, Vanish, Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Enveom (if possible due to energy). Basically the same thing, except your first envenom is going to do insane dmg depending on your gear, but its more or less the exact same dmg between talents.

The opener (with DoS) there this one on the rogue Discord, dunno if it's still the good one but you should give it a try : http://i.imgur.com/UTlmhVq.png

[Msi]

Did they nerf the 9 sec with Subter? because I am only getting 6 secs...

[Capita1ist]

Did they nerf the 9 sec with Subter? because I am only getting 6 secs...

They fixed that bug. Just 6 now.

[thottstation]

Well, it's been a while. Is there any consensus re: Nightstalker v. Subterfuge?

Also, there's something I don't understand. If Draught's damage is so huge, and the Shoulders give a 6 second window of 100% crit... wouldn't it make sense to use Draught in those 6 seconds, after Vendetta/KB/SoT are all rolling?

If I open with Garrote, then pop Rupture/Vendetta/Kingsbane, then there should still be enough of those 6 seconds left to get all of Draught's 3 seconds of Burst in.

[iky43210]

looking at some of the top parsers i'm not sure the old opening is even the most optimal anymore. I see some vanish 2 seconds after the original crit opener falls off for more energy spam and forgo the last 6 sec of kingbane

[Adus]

The opener (with DoS) there this one on the rogue Discord, dunno if it's still the good one but you should give it a try : http://i.imgur.com/UTlmhVq.png

Maybe a stupid question but where exactly does DoS come into this?

[Deleted]

Maybe a stupid question but where exactly does DoS come into this?

ah yeah idd, replace arcane torrent by dos at the end. but this was the opener pre 7.2 when the buff was 9sec due to vanish with subterfuge. i don't think it's still decent tho, i'm playing Urn+CoF waiting for a decent proc Frond to replace Urn.

[Blayke]

Maybe a stupid question but where exactly does DoS come into this?

Because you want to get the full 3 seconds of the DoS effect within the Mantle crit effect; i.e. all the DoS hits will be crits if you do this. If the Mantle effect fades before DoS is done, some of those attacks won't be crits unless you're insanely lucky.

[Blayke]

i like this opener:
garrote - mut - 5rupture - mut - vendetta - 4envenom - kingbane - (crit buff fades).
mut - vanish - 5envenom - mut - DoS - 4envenom - mut - (crit buff fades).
garrote - 5envenom.

So if you're talented into Subterfuge, does it really matter whether you open with garrote > mutilate, or mutilate > garrote. Seems to end up being the same thing unless i'm missing something.

[Remielx]

Is nightstalker better than subterfuge??

[Deleted]

So if you're talented into Subterfuge, does it really matter whether you open with garrote > mutilate, or mutilate > garrote. Seems to end up being the same thing unless i'm missing something.

Garrote would be buffed anyway, but yes, one small little detail:

Garrote would be applied earlier, therefore the first dot tick would be either 3sec into the fight, or 4sec. The difference is getting the 10 Energy as soon as possible, or 1sec later.

[Blayke]

Garrote would be buffed anyway, but yes, one small little detail:

Garrote would be applied earlier, therefore the first dot tick would be either 3sec into the fight, or 4sec. The difference is getting the 10 Energy as soon as possible, or 1sec later.

Ahh, hadn't thought of that. Every little bit helps I suppose. Thanks!