Warcraft Logs Talent Rankings

[Monzsterr]

At warcraftlogs.com they have broken down fight dps records by talent choices (also by trinkets and legendaries) so you can see how talents are working or not working on each fight.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ntinfo=Talents

So here we have 75th percentile ret paladin scores on Botanist. Divine Hammer and Consecration are rocking it while the 426 people who used Divine Purpose are showing just how crap of a talent it is.

What I'm finding interesting is that even though it sims weaker for most of the cleave fights (which is most of the fights in Nighthold) Divine Hammer + Fire of Justice actually seems to be the winning combo. Zeal is strong, but going Zeal + Divine Hammer just shorts you too much on Holy Power for the extra damage zeal would gain over a crusader strike.


Interesting stats to look at anyway.

[Grusalugg]

Interesting find, I am not against consecration on 3+ targets. But there are very few encounters that have very less movement with 3+ targets. Botanist is also a movement fight. It would be hard to get full benefit of cons.

[Monzsterr]

Nymrohd, you'll have to try it to understand the rage :P
When a tank doesn't care and doesn't see your consecration, and if they are not a prot paladin who needs to keep them in their own consecration, it's a fury inducing mad house. RIP skorpyron parses

[brarkan68]

im surprise to see divine hammer be ahead of blade of wrath in all situations , even in pure ST.

[scrappybristol]

As a prot paladin I don't have much trouble keeping them under consecration so I really don't see why a ret paladin would tbh. And yes, there is a lot of movement in Botanist but it is usually very short distances.

well as a prot paladin you get to decide where the mobs are.

[Eon Drache]

im surprise to see divine hammer be ahead of blade of wrath in all situations , even in pure ST.

It sims only 1k lower than Blade of Wrath for me on a pure single target fight. On fights with ANY cleave even for a moment Divine Hammer wins out. Zeal sims higher also but sims seem to think those with cloak are impeccable at keeping the cloak buff up and that isn't really the case during a fight.

[GutsAP]

As a prot paladin I don't have much trouble keeping them under consecration so I really don't see why a ret paladin would tbh. And yes, there is a lot of movement in Botanist but it is usually very short distances.

You really don't see the difference?

[Fatali]

As a prot paladin I don't have much trouble keeping them under consecration so I really don't see why a ret paladin would tbh. And yes, there is a lot of movement in Botanist but it is usually very short distances.

That's an unfair comparison and you know it.

Ignoring the fact that you're a tank and get to decide where the mobs stand, look at the cooldowns.
Ret baseline cooldown for Consecration is 12 seconds, Prots have it good with 9 second baseline and -3 from artifact weapon talents.

As a tank you can hit up your Consecration and have it ready to go again before it even finishes ticking; meanwhile we're only halfway through our cooldown when you might be casting your second Consecration.

The cooldown for Ret's Consecration is far too long for us to make even a single mistake, and even in a perfect raiding environment you can't always call with 100% certainty what's the best time and place to plant your puddle of...stuff. Unless, you know, your cooldown is six seconds with an uptime of nine seconds.

I would love to be able to use Consecration as a Ret, but the potential DPS gains are not worth the potential DPS loss caused by moving.
Risk assessment is a thing for a good reason.

Having such an unreliable skill as a talent choice is a rather stupid design move, imho. It honestly should be a baseline skill, even for Ret.

Final Verdict, GJudgement, and Divine Hammer is where it's at for Botanist.

[dnicks17]

Pretty cool.

I knew I shouldn't have looked at the legendary rankings though. The feel when you're choosing between Sephuz, Aggramar and Justice Gaze for your second legendary haha.

Might give Greater Judge a shot next week. I didn't think it would be all that great, but it seems to be performing well on some fights albeit in a small sample size.

[franto]

I don't see a divine purpose in the table at all!

[Hawg]

I'm suprised at how little difference there is between so many of the talents. With the same analysis done on holy, there are certain talents that look shitty if you do say 50 or 75th percentile, but when you get to 90+ percentile its clear that those talents are being used by the people who are parsing well (for example, aura of sacrifice).

So for holy you can see that lower parse people are chosing talents that higer parse people are not. But for Ret, since so many of the talents remain the same relative rank (or there is so little delta between the ranks that they are essentially tied) regardless of percentile, you can't make the same conclusions.

Here is the same info for holy:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...nts&dataset=90

[Hawg]

Unlike with dps, top parses in healing have healed in radically different situations than high parses; the reason is they likely happened because a raid dropped healers. A 75% performing healer will play quite more conservatively because most of his output goes to correct fuckups rather than to counter healing mechanics. A 90% healer is far less likely to have to deal with such fuckups and mostly focuses on countering fight mechanics (and on making up the throughput lost for dropping a healer or two)

Pretty much nobody has Mythic NH on farm yet. What you are saying may be true for EN Mythic at this point, but right now I suspect that healing parses at 99% for NH mythic raids are as "apples to apples" as you are going to get.

And even if thats not the case, it doesnt change my point, that there is very little delta between the talents in ret.

Your point is understood though.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Almost relative question: how much does tome of tranquil mind cost on your servers?
On mine it's dead stuck at a 200 gold tag.

[Goldenboy1]

im surprise to see divine hammer be ahead of blade of wrath in all situations , even in pure ST.

It is because of the simple fact that Divine Hammers deals holy damage and Blade of Wrath has the issue of diminishing returns. If it procs at 3 or so seconds left on the cooldown its bonus compared to extra damage is nothing.

[Deleted]

It's the same reason Blade of Wrath used to be better than everything, it dealt Holy Damage too before 7.1

It was because of the shorter cd not because of holy damage since the base skill did so much more damage even after armor that if it wasn't for the quicker holy power gain old blade of wrath would have been a dps loss

[Deleted]

So... according to that graph, word of glory is doing 770k DPS.
It's not all. Pony is doing 753k and divine intervention is doing a whopping 787k DPS.

What?!

Anyways... on the topic of botanist heroic and consecration, i have the same problem many have that the bosses are moved way too often. If i could ensure a 90%+ uptime i do think its a damage gain over FV.

lol at 99.2% using crusade. But... DP is super strong Blizz! It might actually break the game! /rolleyes

[GT4]

So... according to that graph, word of glory is doing 770k DPS.
It's not all. Pony is doing 753k and divine intervention is doing a whopping 787k DPS.

What?!

If that confuses you, you're clearly having no idea what you're looking at. Those talents aren't "doing" a certain amount of DPS, players using those talents are doing a certain amount of DPS. Since all of these are utility talents, all it tells you is which utility the higher parsing players are preferring.

This also applies to DPS talents to some extent. If a certain talent sims the highest, it will be taken disproportionately by more well informed players. Those are typically also players who put more time into the game and as such have better gear, more traits, etc. Thus a marginal DPS difference in practice can easily magnify to a large DPS difference in such data.

[Deleted]

If that confuses you, you're clearly having no idea what you're looking at. Those talents aren't "doing" a certain amount of DPS, players using those talents are doing a certain amount of DPS. Since all of these are utility talents, all it tells you is which utility the higher parsing players are preferring.

This also applies to DPS talents to some extent. If a certain talent sims the highest, it will be taken disproportionately by more well informed players. Those are typically also players who put more time into the game and as such have better gear, more traits, etc. Thus a marginal DPS difference in practice can easily magnify to a large DPS difference in such data.

Oh i see. Still looks like a very bad way to be present it, but fair enough.

[Deleted]

I am curious, are you guys melee heavy? We rarely have to move for solar collapse or chaos or get fetters near the bosses (and when we do move I make sure to reposition him back to the sphere spawn point immediately) and the healing circle is fairly small. Does it really need 90% uptime to be worth it over FV from phase 3 onward? just asking to see if I need to be even stricter with the boss' positioning

Oh don't go by that value. I'm just imagining it might.. Consecration did alot of damage when i tested it on that encounter, but because of all the moving it didn't feel as good as it could be.
Tbh with you i'm not convinced my guild is doing it right. The boss get tanked in the middle and we gotta move out everytime the growing dark circle spawns (sorry, i forget the name). I really wish it wasn't so. I was on a normal pug where they tanked him around the ring and there was way less movement, but when i sugested this frowns were made. Feel free to say how your guild does it, it's something i'd like to adress with mine.