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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    MMOs Now and Whats to come?..Looks different..looks grim

    [Please don't get triggered or offended, this was/is just a thought that popped into my head. Yes this is my first post, no it isn't a troll post....or to start any kind of arguments. Its just a thoughts I wanted to share and discuss]
    Note: For me an MMO, generally is an RPG or any game that is online and has player base could be considered an MMO

    I've been playing World of Warcraft for the last 10 years of my life, and I've come to a point where I'm not playing as much nor do I feel like playing as much as I used to not because the game is bad or anything just because of the world...it will always have the same feeling to it, the combat will always have the same feeling to it and this has made me look to other avenues for my play time in an MMO World.

    I tried Swtor,Wildstar,ArchAge,GW2,FFXIV,Rift,Aion,BDO,DCUO,NeverWinter. (But I have yet to try ESO to any extent)

    And all of these games failed at grabbing me as my first couple of days on Azeroth did for one reason or another. Some of them I know, and some of which I'm not completely sure of.

    • But a major problem I can tell you is the combat isn't fluid in these MMO's that have come out over the years, it just never feels as fluid as it should as how far some other MMO's have come and progressed in terms of combat.
    • Another huge factor is alot of these games are already dead (Yes this means the couple thousand of you that still play). Not saying these games are bad but they weren't given a chance after a few release hiccups the hype crowds that joined the game thinking it will be green fields and rainbows right away all left leaving the game with a couple 100 thousand (If they were lucky) that stuck it out...sometimes only for awhile...some still sticking it out. But these games were then forced to go F2P with a cash shop that would hopefully keep them a float from shutting down. These games are not fun to get into because much of the world created has been explored, used, and played through by everyone still playing that MMO so the world is completely Barren besides whatever is current content and that's if a new update was released to make the players still playing even log ON. So besides a few lowbies you might see here and there the game is empty. Which isn't a good feeling for any MMO...I mean kind of defeats the purpose. Which even if you catch up to level cap, you need people to do things, and that's if people still/ do or have a purpose to do whatever content you need to do to gear up to current levels. Alot of these games weren't given a fighting chance or the chance to build player investment within them. So nobody else, really had the opportunity to in some cases
    • The worlds weren't convincing, weren't immersive enough and not fully giving the player the feeling to want to care about the world or anything in it with boring quest objectives, text, or even lazy dialogue in some cases. The world is something the player is supposed to spend is time in and want to look around it. If its boring, not immersive, it gives little desire.
    • ...Some of these games just have very shitty UI's, and if they support addons...sometimes those addons are pretty shitty too(Sorry to the creators, but,well its true somtimes)

    Other reasons these games either have a screwed up economy so you will never be ever to buy certain things you might want or need on the AH, some are stuck with terrible F2P models and terrible Cash Shops where you can buy power, sometimes these powerful items only exist on the Cash Shop for a certain time already putting you above the rest if you play alot and often spend money on the game and some just suck.


    Now for what I really want to talk about...lol...venturing through these games and feeling these ways and having these thoughts always had me returning to World of Warcraft sooner then I expected to in all cases to be honest with you...I had high hopes that one of these games could steal my life away.

    But it didn't happen, now back with Ole' Faithful WoW...but still looking, I sought hope another MMO could come out take players in, and become a new game I can stick with for years...but looking at list after list of upcoming MMO's just...left me hopeless for this genre. A lot of these "MMO's" not really being like the MMO's before it in many regards. Most of them just being huge PVP battles, with some of them having a player driven economy, or some type of building gimmick, players building the world and creating quest themselves. No traditional World story, lore, character building,PVE/PVP system/dynamic,quest or much of what makes most people know an MMO as an MMO. (More like a werid subgenre that is forming within) So I'm left off doubting the production of future MMOs as I know them and love them,sticking with the same thing I've known for years....its kind of like I'm married I guess

    Does anyone feel this way about the state of current MMO's and the future of them? Do you like this new genre that seems to be forming under the banner of an MMO? If you know any MMO's being created that should be known post them
    Last edited by Evaddon; 2017-02-12 at 12:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Sounds more like you're just looking for another WoW that's set in a different world.

    Many of the MMOs you listed are fantastic at telling a story of some kind, and have some decent gameplay. SW:ToR has one of the best leveling experiences I've ever had in an MMO but I'm guessing if you don't particularly like Star Wars how it wouldn't really click with you.

    Wildstar has a very vivid world, with plenty of character and story and pretty amazing combat and game play IMO. It's the end game that was lacking at launch. I haven't continued playing it so can't comment on how that's improved but folks who still play it say it's gotten better.

    ESO is huge. Game play is decent, not anything special but it's not broken either. It's strength is in the sheer number of quests and the breadth of the world and story to experience.

    FFXIV...personally my favorite. World is great, with great characters, Combat is a carbon copy of WoW honestly, just slower paced with battles being less frantic, mediocre to great story (depending on where you are in it...no story is perfect, and this one admittedly has it's fair share of cringe moments alongside it's otherwise epic ones) and a lot to keep yourself busy with content for everyone.

    As I said before, if you honestly tried all of those and didn't find one that piqued your interest you're too much of a die hard WoW fan boy or the MMO genre is just not for you anymore because WoW isn't THAT much different than any of them.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Sounds more like you're just looking for another WoW that's set in a different world.

    Many of the MMOs you listed are fantastic at telling a story of some kind, and have some decent gameplay. SW:ToR has one of the best leveling experiences I've ever had in an MMO but I'm guessing if you don't particularly like Star Wars how it wouldn't really click with you.

    Wildstar has a very vivid world, with plenty of character and story and pretty amazing combat and game play IMO. It's the end game that was lacking at launch. I haven't continued playing it so can't comment on how that's improved but folks who still play it say it's gotten better.

    ESO is huge. Game play is decent, not anything special but it's not broken either. It's strength is in the sheer number of quests and the breadth of the world and story to experience.

    FFXIV...personally my favorite. World is great, with great characters, Combat is a carbon copy of WoW honestly, just slower paced with battles being less frantic, mediocre to great story (depending on where you are in it...no story is perfect, and this one admittedly has it's fair share of cringe moments alongside it's otherwise epic ones) and a lot to keep yourself busy with content for everyone.

    As I said before, if you honestly tried all of those and didn't find one that piqued your interest you're too much of a die hard WoW fan boy or the MMO genre is just not for you anymore because WoW isn't THAT much different than any of them.
    Not at all, I gave each of these games a fair shot and many of them did have great things about them but they weren't perfect. For example, like you said Wildstar, this game was never given a chance as I said in the OP the player base continues to dip from already low standards making any group activity almost impossible to do unless you find people every hour that want to spend hours forming for something. The population was to small for me to able to ride it out, I got to max and was just abandoned for the most part. I really did like Wildstar but no people are hardly playing.

    Swtor is great...for a single player game ._. which is why I often return to level through a story for some relaxing easy story engagement.

    FFXIV, well the combat...the questing...its just all very,very dull. I didn't make it to level cap because I couldn't stomach the initial experience of the game what so ever and honestly...all that dialogue wasn't pleasing either, I'm not looking to read a couple pages of a chapter before every quest.

    But my point is, I'm looking for something new to come. Something I can be one of the first "boots" on the ground players if you know what I mean and these new and upcoming "MMO's" look horrific

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Sorry but I didn't read most of your post. It sounds like Black desert online may be the ultimate MMO you will ever play with the fluid combat and most immersion I have ever seen in a game (Though, Story is not its strong point). Give it a try and you will thank me later.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    Not at all, I gave each of these games a fair shot and many of them did have great things about them but they weren't perfect. For example, like you said Wildstar, this game was never given a chance as I said in the OP the player base continues to dip from already low standards making any group activity almost impossible to do unless you find people every hour that want to spend hours forming for something. The population was to small for me to able to ride it out, I got to max and was just abandoned for the most part. I really did like Wildstar but no people are hardly playing.

    Swtor is great...for a single player game ._. which is why I often return to level through a story for some relaxing easy story engagement.

    FFXIV, well the combat...the questing...its just all very,very dull. I didn't make it to level cap because I couldn't stomach the initial experience of the game what so ever and honestly...all that dialogue wasn't pleasing either, I'm not looking to read a couple pages of a chapter before every quest.

    But my point is, I'm looking for something new to come. Something I can be one of the first "boots" on the ground players if you know what I mean and these new and upcoming "MMO's" look horrific
    I haven't even really looked at truly new MMOs for anything more than funsies, because none of them look to be very fleshed out when compared to WoW, FFXIV and the ones who have been around, I've mostly just paid attention to those two in particular for updates and new stuff. I also keep tabs on SW:ToR because I love Star Wars and enjoy the single player online experience, but ESO to me is very similar.

    The new ones coming out that I've read about are all Free 2 Play...which is honestly not a model I'm very fond of as it usually means the game is going to be highly monetized with a ton of pointless cash shop shit that does nothing for game play and have no fleshed out max level content outside of grinding out of the same old content you've been doing since day 1. Them being F2P though means that you can try them all out with no commitment so you can always hope one of them catches your fancy.

    Here's a link I found with a quick google search for the top 11 anticipated MMOs for 2017...how they made the list I have no idea, but it's a place to start I guess.

  6. #6
    agree to a LOT what op said. if you find a solution to that problem, plz tell me, op i would be happy to have some classical, good, well rounded mmorpg, that could replace retail wow.

  7. #7
    some of those game are extremely good and some aspect are even better than wow, but wow has 10+ year of development under it's belt not only the game itself but even the addon community is extremely well developed no game that come out today could compare.
    Also you need to keep in mind that the very mechanism of mmo tend to make extremely difficult for someone who had spent years building an account to suddenly drop it and restart from 0 in another game, also the older peoples grown the less time they can spent on games.
    Then there are the various dev philosophies for me for example game who don't have tab targeting and use action combat with few skills are extremely boring or those game who don't have a definite tank/healer/dps scheme or those who don't have addon support etc. I may like some part but in the end those feel incomplete.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  8. #8
    Pantheon will hopefully fix this

  9. #9
    I've got money in Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, and Pantheon. These are the 3 I see as having some chance of success. They have some fresh ideas but aren't trying to completely reinvent the wheel like some of the zanier indie and crowdfunded options. Also, the dev's have a lot of prior experience. Unlike the major game companies, they won't be stuck trying to make absurd profit goals. That is, cash shops should be more limited (hopefully) and design decisions less focused on attracting super casual players. If just one of them pans out, I will be quite happy.

  10. #10
    sounds like you like the mmo but not so much the rpg, try the division or destiny.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Berengil's Avatar
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    I feel much the same. I've tried:

    AoC,STO,Wildstar,ToR,Rift,Archeage,RoM, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Disappointed every time.

    AoC: boring starting area, crap melee mechanics

    STO: disappointing in more ways than I care to waste time talking about, same for Wildstar and Rift

    ToR: was there at release, left after 2 weeks for lots of reasons; funny thing is I loved KotOR 1 and 2,; now its a freemium cash grab

    Archeage: unstable servers ( just tried this one, maybe they were having trouble that day, but that's not my problem)

    RoM: barf graphics

    For all its problems, WoW does lots of different things well.

    As a side note: I took a look at the "List of MMORPGS" page on Wikipedia, and holy crap it's 99% fantasy. Why so many fantasy games?

    You'd think devs somewhere would see the opportunity, and try more scifi/superheroes/horror.
    " The guilt of an unnecessary war is terrible." --- President John Adams
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  12. #12
    You wont find what you are looking for, it doesnt exist.

    Blizzard had said it many times before for those that remember, most of their games are delayed when they dont find the gameplay "fluid and smooth" hence even D3 got delayed for that, a few WoW expansions back then and so on.

    Not all companies are the same, they do not have the money to delay their MMOs/Games or pay better designers to get that fluidity going.

    WoW had a massive success, companies tried to get on bandwagon so many MMO's popped about all lacking something or as you mentioned , alive for a bit, dead quickly after or you know that fake "GAME IS ALIVE, GOING F2P" with 5k people online and barely anything happening.

    Its all business, its not the game, its simply business, its "Lets invest some money, hope we get them back", this changed to MOBAs after 2010 from MMO, hence why so many popped up at the same time after LoL started gaining ground, there are way more MOBA's out there if you search than the big 2, maybe 3 if you add SMITE.

    I played or tried all those MMO's you mentioned, only one that was worth something was Rift for awhile but it soon had the same issue, everyone quitting and game going from buggy to WTF IS THIS SHIFT, in no time.

    Games that arent 100% garbage from that list:

    FFXIV cause its not that crappy made.
    ESO is differnt than the rest, havent played it but people simply like it cause you know, Skyrim online.
    GW2 was the only game where i enjoyed leveling, where the whole "Complete quest while running and doing objectives" instead of running back introduced but was everywhere, not 2/10 quests.

    The rest have no point of existence, maybe Tera can be added to that list cause actually quite a few play it but still, a bit non-fluid mess at most times.
    Last edited by potis; 2017-02-14 at 12:29 AM.

  13. #13
    There doesn't seem to be many major MMOs on the horizon. I was looking to jump back in to an MMORPG recently and did some searching and trials. Very few Western MMOs upcoming.

    I defaulted back to Rift (casually) while letting my SWTOR sub slip after the last x-pack. SWTOR is most compelling MMORPG on the market to me currently, but the content updates are kinda thin. I burn through SWTOR stuff pretty quickly and the grinds at the end are kinda tiresome at this point.

    Rift is fine- I like a lot of the new additions. However, I feel Rift lost a lot of it's uniqueness by making the classes and progression paths more & more linear. The entire draw of Rift for me is the soul system. It seems Trion are making that system less expansive and complex. Which makes the gameplay kinda dull.

    For the first time in a long time, I am worried about the state of Western MMORPGs. Many of the Eastern MMORPGs I tried out a few weeks ago were very unpolished; Echo of Soul, Eden Eternal, Tree of Savior, Mabinogi, et cetera. Some had interesting systems (Echo of Soul) but lacked robustness and production value.

    I am keenly interested in a Western developed MMORPG with high production value (SWTOR), complex systems (early Rift) and that is not action-combat/flipy-flipy garbage. What I found was... nothing.

    Definitely the more sorry state of the MMORPG for me is current.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I haven't even really looked at truly new MMOs for anything more than funsies, because none of them look to be very fleshed out when compared to WoW, FFXIV and the ones who have been around, I've mostly just paid attention to those two in particular for updates and new stuff. I also keep tabs on SW:ToR because I love Star Wars and enjoy the single player online experience, but ESO to me is very similar.

    The new ones coming out that I've read about are all Free 2 Play...which is honestly not a model I'm very fond of as it usually means the game is going to be highly monetized with a ton of pointless cash shop shit that does nothing for game play and have no fleshed out max level content outside of grinding out of the same old content you've been doing since day 1. Them being F2P though means that you can try them all out with no commitment so you can always hope one of them catches your fancy.

    I found with a quick google search for the top 11 anticipated MMOs for 2017...how they made the list I have no idea, but it's a place to start I guess.
    Those are the exact list I mention talking about showing these "mmos" that aren't really mmos, and thus why I think the future of any good MMO that could stand up against or become better then WoW is looking grim. I don't see a good MMO that can even come close, and another half of them are crowd funded which will probably never see the light of day

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    sounds like you like the mmo but not so much the rpg, try the division or destiny.
    Exact opposite mate...lol...I don't get how the hell you got this outcome from my post...but...I love MMORPG, they're exactly what I want. But the games that are out there don't fit all the pieces together properly,have flaws I don't like, or are already dead. As said in the OP. As I said throughout the OP and the "MMO's of the future" are looking bleak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    There doesn't seem to be many major MMOs on the horizon. I was looking to jump back in to an MMORPG recently and did some searching and trials. Very few Western MMOs upcoming.

    I defaulted back to Rift (casually) while letting my SWTOR sub slip after the last x-pack. SWTOR is most compelling MMORPG on the market to me currently, but the content updates are kinda thin. I burn through SWTOR stuff pretty quickly and the grinds at the end are kinda tiresome at this point.

    Rift is fine- I like a lot of the new additions. However, I feel Rift lost a lot of it's uniqueness by making the classes and progression paths more & more linear. The entire draw of Rift for me is the soul system. It seems Trion are making that system less expansive and complex. Which makes the gameplay kinda dull.

    For the first time in a long time, I am worried about the state of Western MMORPGs. Many of the Eastern MMORPGs I tried out a few weeks ago were very unpolished; Echo of Soul, Eden Eternal, Tree of Savior, Mabinogi, et cetera. Some had interesting systems (Echo of Soul) but lacked robustness and production value.

    I am keenly interested in a Western developed MMORPG with high production value (SWTOR), complex systems (early Rift) and that is not action-combat/flipy-flipy garbage. What I found was... nothing.

    Definitely the more sorry state of the MMORPG for me is current.
    Yeah the state of production of MMO's is terrible. If its not Korean/Japanese its not coming out or its not really an MMORPG at all, that's all I get from my searches. It looks to me like I'll have to jump inbetween MMO's while just sticking with WoW like I've been.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Fat Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    Please don't get triggered or offended
    how dare you tell me what should and shouldnt trigger and offend me...

    i mean im not and i agree with you, but how dare you!!



    honestly i feel wow has ruined a lot of new mmos for me.. wow has been able to add so much quality of life changes to the game over the years they seem mandatory now... i LOVED swtor but even the small things like a damage meter kind of bugged me. i looked past it though cuz motha fuckin HUTTBALL!!!!
    Last edited by Fat Mac; 2017-02-14 at 03:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    You wont find what you are looking for, it doesnt exist.

    Blizzard had said it many times before for those that remember, most of their games are delayed when they dont find the gameplay "fluid and smooth" hence even D3 got delayed for that, a few WoW expansions back then and so on.

    Not all companies are the same, they do not have the money to delay their MMOs/Games or pay better designers to get that fluidity going.

    WoW had a massive success, companies tried to get on bandwagon so many MMO's popped about all lacking something or as you mentioned , alive for a bit, dead quickly after or you know that fake "GAME IS ALIVE, GOING F2P" with 5k people online and barely anything happening.

    Its all business, its not the game, its simply business, its "Lets invest some money, hope we get them back", this changed to MOBAs after 2010 from MMO, hence why so many popped up at the same time after LoL started gaining ground, there are way more MOBA's out there if you search than the big 2, maybe 3 if you add SMITE.

    I played or tried all those MMO's you mentioned, only one that was worth something was Rift for awhile but it soon had the same issue, everyone quitting and game going from buggy to WTF IS THIS SHIFT, in no time.

    Games that arent 100% garbage from that list:

    FFXIV cause its not that crappy made.
    ESO is differnt than the rest, havent played it but people simply like it cause you know, Skyrim online.
    GW2 was the only game where i enjoyed leveling, where the whole "Complete quest while running and doing objectives" instead of running back introduced but was everywhere, not 2/10 quests.

    The rest have no point of existence, maybe Tera can be added to that list cause actually quite a few play it but still, a bit non-fluid mess at most times.
    You hit the nail on the head, and this is probably the key reason we don't see many good MMO's popping up on the market from known studios because of the failed investments into the genre of other studios have scared them away.

    Yeah FFXIV was pretty good for the most part, the world, yeah. But the quest...the combat...I didn't make it to cap because of how dull it was from the start

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Fat Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    Yeah FFXIV was pretty good for the most part, the world, yeah. But the quest...the combat...I didn't make it to cap because of how dull it was from the start
    they need to reinvent the mmo starting experience/ leveling concept .. spending so much time questing to reach max level just seem like such an old concept , needs something new and entertaining

    what? i dont know. but Ultima Onlines leveling system was by far the most fun ever for me

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    • But a major problem I can tell you is the combat isn't fluid in these MMO's that have come out over the years, it just never feels as fluid as it should as how far some other MMO's have come and progressed in terms of combat.

    i remember Kripparian made a video about this. In wow your char moves fluid through the world, looking around , jumping, combat..

    too many mmo games seems to miss that point.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, and this is probably the key reason we don't see many good MMO's popping up on the market from known studios because of the failed investments into the genre of other studios have scared them away.

    Yeah FFXIV was pretty good for the most part, the world, yeah. But the quest...the combat...I didn't make it to cap because of how dull it was from the start
    The early leveling experience in FFXIV is pretty slow due to the severe lack of skills and a super long (in comparison to most MMOs) GCD. It does get better, and actually feels really good at max level. I enjoyed the story, but as in any epic long story quest there are cringe worthy moments. I'd strongly recommend pushing through to level 30+ on any class, though Pugilist/ Monk gets better quicker than most.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The early leveling experience in FFXIV is pretty slow due to the severe lack of skills and a super long (in comparison to most MMOs) GCD. It does get better, and actually feels really good at max level. I enjoyed the story, but as in any epic long story quest there are cringe worthy moments. I'd strongly recommend pushing through to level 30+ on any class, though Pugilist/ Monk gets better quicker than most.
    Seconding this. Monk (MNK) and Ninja (NIN) are pretty frentic from level 50 onward. Frentic, but very satisfying to play when you know you're working them right.

    The OP is right, though. For a MMO veteran, especially a WoW vet, early combat in this game is ungodly sluggish. Per the dev team, it's designed with total newcomers (and controllers) in mind. It was part of what I had to overcome to stick around (because I had been used to the pace of WoW and GW2), but once I did and got leveled up a bit...it's been on ever since.

  20. #20
    MMOs have gone back to their niche market. Actually truth be told they were always niche. WoW was the exception, and it was revolutionary, but nothing will ever repeat that. The gaming generation is just different now. WoW is still doing quite well(relatively, although nowhere near as it used to of course), and some others are doing okay, but if you're looking for another WoW that will last you for 5+ years you'll be disappointed.

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