Blood Tank switching to Frost DPS, need advice

[Zorachus]

This may be a long post, so bare with me please. I've been playing WoW since launch, but typically been a hardcore casual player if that makes any sense ? I like to get as high geared as heroic dungeons allow, and then run LFR, and try Normal Raids of current content.

Over my years playing, I only Raided in Wrath, MoP, and just starting to in Legion recently. I typically always play a Tank class, like Paladin, Death Knight, or the new Demon Hunter. I am great at Tanking Dungeons, but no so much in current Raid bosses, as I don't know the mechanics 100% all the time. My main in Legion has been my Blood DK, he's at i863 right now, and I feel stuck. I have been trying some EN heroic, and Nightold Normal, and just get hammered because I'm not super familiar with the boss fights. But i want the gear upgrades, and thought running those Raids would be the only way to go up from i863 ?

The gear grind is starting to be a major turnoff again. Ton of players on my server are i900 or i905 iLvl, and have zero idea how they get there without a shit ton of time invested.

I'm a casual player, but I still play 5 or 6 nights week with Legion. I will play for maybe 90 minutes each time.

I have three Legion characters I am messing around with;

- Demon Hunter Level 110 iLvl i858
- Paladin Tank Level 110 iLvl 848
- Death Knight Tank Level 110 iLvl i863

I just can't get over the i870 mark, I've been running LFR and Normal Raids, and drop after drop nothing for me, and when I do get a drop it's worse or same as currently equipped. And some of the runs I go on, these are are Public Group Finder Raids, we wipe once, and half the group rage quits and freaks out, and we have to find half new players and start the boss over again, and that usually end up a cluster fuck.

So, I am thinking maybe best to go DPS for once ? I started a Frost spec for my DK, since already have AK 26 in Blood spec, I can get my AP up quickly, which I have over half my traits filled in Frost already, and currently sit at i855 in Frost.

Is this a good method to try ? Go for Frost in these same Raids I am failing at Tank ? See how I fair ?

I have read so many different Frost specs and Rotations, my head I spinning. One thing I do like about Blood, is the very straightforward spell rotation. I have always liked the old school WoW rotations, when they were one spell after another in a straight line, rinse and repeat. Blood feels like that. Whereas Frost fees like WoW after the Cata changes, meaning the spells pop up spontaneously when needed. So I am trying to find the right Frost build that's more one after another, if there is such a build ?

What is your opinion ?

[Raiz]

Lots of people are gearing from Mythic+ first before going into raid (obviously there are exceptions like those who only get gears from raid). If you really want to get gear fast, you need to stay tank because they are with healers still on high demand in pickup groups.

The DPS specs rotation aren't really different tbh. It's just a matter of priorities, like gathering storm uptime or wounds are for bone shield's stack. There is no magic : you have to play them first to get an idea of how they work. I promise you, it doesn't take long. Probably an hour or so against training dummies.

[Zorachus]

I guess I should do Mythic+ then. Really haven't done any Mythic's at all except what was needed for my Class Hall campaign. And after that I ran several Mythic's and got crap i840 gear, which I didn't need, I do recall running a Mythic with a +2 stone thing, and no drops for me, so I stopped doing Mythics altogether.

[Raiz]

Obviously, you're not guaranteed to get gear from chests, but they're also quick to be done. If you have 90minutes to spare, then that's enough time to do 3-5 mythics+ realistically.

MoS are really fast. Only 7 minutes for most hardcore grinders. I think it's followed by CoS. After that I'm not sure.
The longers one are probably BRH, HoV and EoA.

[Zorachus]

Should I stick with my Blood Tank, or go further on with my new Frost spec ?

[Deleted]

Well if you stay tank you will have to learn how to run the dungeon for dont fail up timer(cause if you are hard failing hight chance to get leaver/rager on you) but that get 3-4 run for feel confortable with a dungeon, and i suggest you to try it, run a mythic+ is pretty fun if you are with the good people.

As frost Dps you will just follow your tank adn expect he dont s*** big d*** and dont spend 1h in a 20 min dungeon.

You are tank, keep tanking and it will be a good experience for you and i think you will appreciate it even as a "casual" player

[Zorachus]

I am comfortable with my Frost spec and rotation spells now, and really liking it a lot I ran Three Mythic + last night in a row, 3, 5, and 6, and we completed all of them in time. I had a blast as Frost DPS in there.

Here's my guy;

[Barael]

Remember to freeze your monsters and crush them like no other!

[Zorachus]

Ok so I've been with my Frost spec for the first time for a week now, and so far liking it a lot. I've got my Talents picked that work best for me, I have my rotation down, which is working smooth and quickly, with lots of procs, and my Artifact traits are 75% filled. I can whack away and do some good damage.

But two or three MAJOR turnoffs so far, with DPS specs vs. Tank;

- Queue times for Dungeons and Raids is like ten times longer it seems. Queue for LFR on my Tank and is less than a 10 minute wait, queue with Frost spec is a 40 minute wait. Setup Mythic + runs, as Tank I fill up a group real quick, in like 5 minutes, but as DPS it takes a long time to get a full group ready to go.

- I forgot how squishy and weak DPS are. I've died pretty easily on WQ's with mobs that in Tank mode would never have been killed in. Same with few a Mythic runs, I died in some areas in the dungeon I was shocked to have been killed.

- Not sure I can still solo old Raids and old content for mog gear like I easily could in Tank mode. Run old MoP Raids as Tank = easy peasy, not sure this DPS spec can run those the same ?

[Raiz]

Ok so I've been with my Frost spec for the first time for a week now, and so far liking it a lot. I've got my Talents picked that work best for me, I have my rotation down, which is working smooth and quickly, with lots of procs, and my Artifact traits are 75% filled. I can whack away and do some good damage.

But two or three MAJOR turnoffs so far, with DPS specs vs. Tank;

- Queue times for Dungeons and Raids is like ten times longer it seems. Queue for LFR on my Tank and is less than a 10 minute wait, queue with Frost spec is a 40 minute wait. Setup Mythic + runs, as Tank I fill up a group real quick, in like 5 minutes, but as DPS it takes a long time to get a full group ready to go.

- I forgot how squishy and weak DPS are. I've died pretty easily on WQ's with mobs that in Tank mode would never have been killed in. Same with few a Mythic runs, I died in some areas in the dungeon I was shocked to have been killed.

- Not sure I can still solo old Raids and old content for mog gear like I easily could in Tank mode. Run old MoP Raids as Tank = easy peasy, not sure this DPS spec can run those the same ?

It's been that way since the beginning of WoW. Tanks especially those with self heal, have much more survivability. We play DPS because we like to kill mobs faster even if that means only 10-30% more. Once you get gear, you can pretty much solo everything with a DPS spec (except maybe a few rare elites).

DPS is great for killing each mob. Tank is great for multiple mobs. Always been like this.

I saw your other post that you wanted to respec your artifact trait. I guess you wanted to get the one with huge health life gain from Death strike ? Don't worry, you'll get it eventually.

Just don't stand on avoidable AoE in group's contents.

[Zorachus]

It's been that way since the beginning of WoW. Tanks especially those with self heal, have much more survivability. We play DPS because we like to kill mobs faster even if that means only 10-30% more. Once you get gear, you can pretty much solo everything with a DPS spec (except maybe a few rare elites).

DPS is great for killing each mob. Tank is great for multiple mobs. Always been like this.

I saw your other post that you wanted to respec your artifact trait. I guess you wanted to get the one with huge health life gain from Death strike ? Don't worry, you'll get it eventually.

Just don't stand on avoidable AoE in group's contents.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate.

Yeah I think it's that I am not geared well enough yet, still i853 ( and still no 3rd relic slot fill yet, looking for that one more Frost rune relic, only 2 relic slots filled now ) And not all traits filled up, maybe 75% filled currently. So once I get the third relic, and all the traits filled and better gear, will that make a difference ?

[Raiz]

The third relic will give you a huge DPS boost for sure. After that, traits are just little bonuses. Like everyone said, you'll get them eventually. Just don't focus too much on it.

[Zorachus]

So this weekend I ran some Mythic +, went, 6, 9, and to 10. And then ran both LFR Nightold, as well as part of Normal NH, and part of EN Heroic. I did get a Legendary 940 Tank trinket, and two 875 pcs.

I did all of this as sometimes Frost DPS, and a little as my Blood Tank.

One issue with the Frost spec, I seemed to always die the easiest in Frost mode in the Raid. I try not to step in shit, and move out of the way. I have the Add On GTFO, but I still seem to get easily one shotted, or I step in purple shit for only 1/2 a second and I dead.

The Tank I was able to 4 man a Mythic +6, after one DPS dc after first boss, I am able to Tank Mythic pretty well now it seems. With Frost, same thing still, I do die a few times in there, from being so squishy.

Bottom line, I like my Tank spec better, I've been playing Tank 75% on this character since Wrath, but I just suck on some of the Raid bosses in Normal NH and Heroic EN from not knowing the mechs.

I do like the speed of Frost, and the high DPS is a lot of fun, but...being weak sauce and easily killed is not. Whereas Blood I feel uber bad ass, and I like leading, but I suck at the harder Raid bosses. I can Mythic bosses, because I've gotten to know them well enough after running the dungeons so many times.

Opinions ??

[Ealyssa]

Really haven't done any Mythic's at all except what was needed for my Class Hall campaign.

/endthread

Really MM+ is where the loot is especially when trying to improve your ilvl. You really should stop playing so much characters if you can't gear one, bbut that's up to you.

[Zorachus]

/endthread

Really MM+ is where the loot is especially when trying to improve your ilvl. You really should stop playing so much characters if you can't gear one, bbut that's up to you.

I have decided to just stick with the Death Knight for now. I did run Mythic +'s this weekend, and got the i940 legendary Tank trinket at the end of MoS My gear score went up 6 points this weekend from that Trink and a couple other higher iLvl items.

I was going back and forth on staying with Tanking or going forward long term with the Frost DPS spec I just started, but I am just not comfortable with DPS, never really DPS'd my entire WoW career, going back to November 2004 launch. Out of those 13 years playing WoW, I have probably been Tank spec'd on my characters 60% to 70% of that time. Always great Tanking in heroic dungeons, and now pretty good Tank in Mythics, But for some reason in current content Normal Raids not that good.

Oh well, I'd be happy enough getting this DK to i880 or so. Can that be achieved by doing M+ and some LFR NH ?

[Deleted]

Should I stick with my Blood Tank, or go further on with my new Frost spec ?

If you enjoy blood tanking you should stick to it. I assume you know all dungeons really well by now, so doing M+ would be a "easy" step for you. You just need to understand the affixes then, and they are the same one week at a time. Should lead to some gear progression. Also keep doing LFR and read the dungeon journal to understand what is going on. If you have some bosses where you still got doubt, the YouTube have guides for everything.
It requires a bit of time at first, but when you got it, then it is easy enough