Tier 20 Set Bonusses - Rogue

[Maelstrom51]

btw sub got another set bonus that's 100% gonna get nerfed a day before release
calling it now

Should try to do some math before making claims. The sub tier is pretty meh outside of QoL.

In my current gear its a ~43k dps increase, which is only 7.5%.

If you want to check yourself here's the process:

DPS gained ~= ((crits_4pc * uses_4pc * SS * critfactor)-(crits_no4pc * uses_no4pc * SS * critfactor))/60

Where:

SS = average non-crit Shadowstrike damage
critfactor = 1 - (autoattack crit chance)
crits_4pc = 3
uses_4pc = 6
crits_no4pc = 1
uses_no4pc = 2

For me the result is:

((3 * 6 * 250000 * 0.65)-(1 * 2 * 250000 * 0.65))/60 = 43333.33

And before the set bonus I sim for 596k.

Outlaw 2pc is almost as good as our entire set.

[ripple19]

I personally expect tier bonuses to add a bit of game play to the class...so I have been extremely dissapointed by the tier 19 4 set, and now both of the tier 20 sets. They are not even fun bonuses.....it's pathetic that this is the best Blizzard could come up with. I could spend 5 minutes and come up with a better tier design.

[DakonBlackblade]

There have been some tier set bonus that already changed. Its pretty clear to me the 2 part for Sin is a placeholder, Blizz would never make a tier bonus that gives 0 damage. The 4 parts is actualy quite OK, with the new artifact trait, and runing subterfuge itd give liek 3-3.5% damage, wich if comboed with a 5-6% 2 parts would be pretty OK, even if its comboed with a 4-5% 2 parts itd still be OK, not great but OK.

[shaunika123]

Should try to do some math before making claims. The sub tier is pretty meh outside of QoL.

In my current gear its a ~43k dps increase, which is only 7.5%.

If you want to check yourself here's the process:

DPS gained ~= ((crits_4pc * uses_4pc * SS * critfactor)-(crits_no4pc * uses_no4pc * SS * critfactor))/60

Where:

SS = average non-crit Shadowstrike damage
critfactor = 1 - (autoattack crit chance)
crits_4pc = 3
uses_4pc = 6
crits_no4pc = 1
uses_no4pc = 2

For me the result is:

((3 * 6 * 250000 * 0.65)-(1 * 2 * 250000 * 0.65))/60 = 43333.33

And before the set bonus I sim for 596k.

Outlaw 2pc is almost as good as our entire set.

that moment when you do thorough and extensive math and still miss my point by a mile

There have been some tier set bonus that already changed. Its pretty clear to me the 2 part for Sin is a placeholder, Blizz would never make a tier bonus that gives 0 damage

might wanna go ahead and check the feral 2pc t19

[Maelstrom51]

that moment when you do thorough and extensive math and still miss my point by a mile

What exactly was your point if you weren't saying its OP? Its not like Blizzard usually nerfs already weak tier sets.

[shaunika123]

What exactly was your point if you weren't saying its OP? Its not like Blizzard usually nerfs already weak tier sets.

it's how they handled our previous tier set?

it was apparently fine for 5 months (in fact it was buffed during beta from 50% to 100%) and in the last fucking day of the PTR they nerfed it.

my point wasnt that it's "OP" my point was that blizzard is an asshole when it comes to announcing nerfs/buffs in the proper time
and they like to nerf sub

same with the MA relic nerfs that were hotfixed 2 days AFTER the patch hit

[Maelstrom51]

it's how they handled our previous tier set?

it was apparently fine for 5 months (in fact it was buffed during beta from 50% to 100%) and in the last fucking day of the PTR they nerfed it.

my point wasnt that it's "OP" my point was that blizzard is an asshole when it comes to announcing nerfs/buffs in the proper time

same with the MA relic nerfs that were hotfixed 2 days AFTER the patch hit

Sub T19 was absurdly OP before the nerf, so I thought you were implying that T20 was absurdly OP as well.

[shaunika123]

Sub T19 was absurdly OP before the nerf, so I thought you were implying that T20 was absurdly OP as well.

it's not but it's a huge QoL buff
(and so was the t19)

and blizzard doesnt seem to want subs to have quality of life, they just dangle that carrot on a stick so we dont all reroll

[TheRogue]

Later tier bonuses are supposed to be fun....

These are boring AF

I could be wrong, but Assassin 2pc is 100% useless unless we have more than 1 target?

[Sonics12]

What I dont understand is:

Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus -Garrote's cooldown is reduced by 6.0 sec.

THIS HAS NO VALUE ON SINGLE TARGET

We already maintain a 100% uptime on garrote and if you cast it the second it comes off cooldown, you can actually clip it (As in over the Pandemic window).

So I really dont see why this 2pc is so bad. You will need 2 target SUSTAINED cleave for it to be good. And even then it's average at best.

but the sticking point is again.

THIS HAS NO VALUE ON SINGLE TARGET

Blizzard pls?!

[Jenedan]

What I dont understand is:

Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus -Garrote's cooldown is reduced by 6.0 sec.

THIS HAS NO VALUE ON SINGLE TARGET

We already maintain a 100% uptime on garrote and if you cast it the second it comes off cooldown, you can actually clip it (As in over the Pandemic window).

So I really dont see why this 2pc is so bad. You will need 2 target SUSTAINED cleave for it to be good. And even then it's average at best.

but the sticking point is again.

THIS HAS NO VALUE ON SINGLE TARGET

Blizzard pls?!

Tier 20 Set Bonuses do not need to be competitive for Single Target DPS - We already have Tier 19 for that.

Let's clarify: With Emerald Nightmare, competitive guilds are still taking the time to clear Mythic for a chance at Titanforged loot. Assuming Blizzard allows it, why will Tier 19 not still be viable in ToS? Also, our Legendaries allow us be versatile depending on the fight / situation, followed with an exchange of trinkets... My point, what's stopping us from using 4-Set Tier 20 with 2-Set Tier 19 & Bracers with 2-3 Target fights (Think Botanist) that is clearly being dominated by other Multi-DoTing classes.

Tier 20 expands Assassination's toolkit further into controlled add fights, but still leaves us with the option of swapping to being the queens / kings of Single Target. I, personally, am looking forward to showing Shadow Priests that they don't own "Botanist-esque" encounters.

[6k MMR Lolicon]

The Outlaw 4p bonus can't go live as it is. When you burst with CotD and True Bearing, Adrenaline Rush is pretty much ready to be popped for a second time by the time the first one is finished.

Do the devs even play this game?

[Deleted]

Jesus calm down people, this just appeared on PTR.

Although I agree the 2pc has literaly no use unless on a Botanist-type fight. They are buffing garrote a lot with 4pc 20% bonus dmg + 16% bonus dmg on artifact.

This plus the poison bomb change (now proced by rupture aswell) can give us considerable sustained cleave dmg on fat adds. We'll have to see how the new raid encounters look. This might be very good or very bad.

But I agree just flat damage on 4pc is boring design.

[Deleted]

Tier 20 Set Bonuses do not need to be competitive for Single Target DPS - We already have Tier 19 for that.

Let's clarify: With Emerald Nightmare, competitive guilds are still taking the time to clear Mythic for a chance at Titanforged loot. Assuming Blizzard allows it, why will Tier 19 not still be viable in ToS? Also, our Legendaries allow us be versatile depending on the fight / situation, followed with an exchange of trinkets... My point, what's stopping us from using 4-Set Tier 20 with 2-Set Tier 19 & Bracers with 2-3 Target fights (Think Botanist) that is clearly being dominated by other Multi-DoTing classes.

Tier 20 expands Assassination's toolkit further into controlled add fights, but still leaves us with the option of swapping to being the queens / kings of Single Target. I, personally, am looking forward to showing Shadow Priests that they don't own "Botanist-esque" encounters.

You missed the part where Assa has the worst AoE and one of the worst swap-mechanics in the game. By adding this 2-4 set with Garrote it really isn't gonna be that much better, barely even. On top of that our ST is literally all we have, and even in that we currently dont outshine all classes (which imo yes, we should, considering DHs+Warriors are top tier ST atm, while also performing very well on AoE).

If they want to make Assa bit stronger towards add fights.. then a complete overhaul is needed for the spec. Currently, even IF you are lucky enough to proc Poison Bombs on a few adds, you are STILL left behind almost every other class. And lets be honest, pure RNG for AoE? No thanks, rather see my FoK buffed.

[Jenedan]

You missed the part where Assa has the worst AoE and one of the worst swap-mechanics in the game. By adding this 2-4 set with Garrote it really isn't gonna be that much better, barely even. On top of that our ST is literally all we have, and even in that we currently dont outshine all classes (which imo yes, we should, considering DHs+Warriors are top tier ST atm, while also performing very well on AoE).

If they want to make Assa bit stronger towards add fights.. then a complete overhaul is needed for the spec. Currently, even IF you are lucky enough to proc Poison Bombs on a few adds, you are STILL left behind almost every other class. And lets be honest, pure RNG for AoE? No thanks, rather see my FoK buffed.

"Worst AoE" is quite subjective, don't you think? I've separated all Heroic Botanist parses within the 90th percentile to provide some factual evidence that your statement might be misguided: Fluffy Puppies

As for having the worst "swap-mechanics in the game", I'll assume we're basing this off of our current favored build of Agonizing Poison; which, would ideally be swapped for Alacrity in 2-3 mob situations reverting us back to Deadly Poison. Also, since Poison Bomb can now proc from Rupture at an equal rate as Envenom, we no longer need to have a main focus for clipping Surge of Toxins (outside of KB / Vendetta window) with Envenom pooling. This gives us a much more versatile CP builder with a more active Garrote, allows us more energy through Venomous Wounds further allowing us to prepare multiple Ruptures for ideal KB / Vendetta windows, and let's Subterfuge gain more legitimacy / synergy outside of have Mantle of the Master Assassin.

Overall, even in our current state, we are far from "left behind almost every other class". Tier 20 only gives us more options... Not to mention the neat things we might be able to do in M+'s now (I can't wait).

[Blazo]

Here we go, guys
Bag of Tricks (Rank 1) Envenom has a chance Envenom and Rupture have a 3.0% chance per combo point spent to smash a vial of poison at the target's location, creating a pool of acidic death that deals [ 6 + 720% of AP ] Nature damage over 3 sec to all enemies within it.

So we gonna play with DS again instead of vigor coz of that and
Urge to Kill (Rank 1) Activating Vendetta refills all of your Energy. grants 60 energy plus an addtional 0 energy over 2 sec. <= that

18% proc chance not bad at all unless it will be stricted with RPPM

[Maelstrom51]

"Worst AoE" is quite subjective, don't you think? I've separated all Heroic Botanist parses within the 90th percentile to provide some factual evidence that your statement might be misguided: Fluffy Puppies

Uhh, heroic Botanist is a cleave fight, not AoE.

[Deleted]

Looking at 35+ talents AND set bonuses outlaw is in a whole different league. It's so far ahead that you can't even see other specs from where it is.

Bag of Tricks (Rank 1) Envenom has a chance Envenom and Rupture have a 3.0% chance per combo point spent to smash a vial of poison at the target's location, creating a pool of acidic death that deals [ 6 + 720% of AP ] Nature damage over 3 sec to all enemies within it.

It's hardly any different from how it is right now: it doesn't become more controllable nor procs more often.

[Deleted]

Nerfing Vendetta energy gain, gotta love it

[Arkura]

I would really hate for Assa to be "forced" to grind NH and pray for a solid titanforge on 4 items in order to have somewhat decent set bonuses.
I do hope they change the set bonuses for this spec seeing as its not really giving us anything. The 2 set is so lacking that I kinda facepalmed and rolled over to the side to play dead when reading it.