Senate blocks law to stop those with mental disorders from purchasing guns

[Independent voter]

The gun lobby just wants to sell more guns, crazy people make up what? 1% of the market?

I guess an extreme paranoid would find a .44 magnum comforting.






http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...215-story.html

The Republican-led Senate voted Wednesday to block an Obama-era regulation that would prevent an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm. The measure now goes to President Donald Trump, who is expected to sign it.

The regulation was crafted as part of President Barack Obama's efforts to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, a 20-year-old man with a variety of impairments, including Asperger's syndrome and obsessive-compulsive disorder, shot and killed his mother at their home, then went to school where he killed the students, adults and himself.

The Obama administration rule required the Social Security Administration to send in the names of beneficiaries with mental impairments who also have a third party manage their benefits.

But lawmakers, with the backing of the National Rifle Association and advocacy groups for the disabled, opposed the regulation and encouraged Congress to undertake a rarely successful process designed to void regulations that Congress takes issue with.


The 57-43 vote to revoke the regulation sends the measure to Trump.

With a Republican ally in the White House, the GOP has moved aggressively on several fronts to rescind some of the Obama administration's final regulations on the environment, financial reporting and now guns. Under an expedited process established through the Congressional Review Act, a regulation is made invalid when a simple majority of both chambers pass a joint resolution of disapproval and the president signs it.

With Trump in the limelight, Republicans rush to repeal Obama's work
With Trump in the limelight, Republicans rush to repeal Obama's work
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, spearheaded the repeal effort and said the regulation unfairly stigmatizes the disabled and infringes on their constitutional right to bear arms. He said that the mental disorders covered through the regulation are filled with "vague characteristics that do not fit into the federal mentally defective standard" prohibiting someone from buying or owning a gun.

Grassley cited eating and sleep disorders as examples of illnesses that could allow a beneficiary to be reported to the background check system if they also have a third party to manage their benefits.

"If a specific individual is likely to be violent due to the nature of their mental illness, then the government should have to prove it," Grassley said.

The rule isn't scheduled to go into effect until December. It only would apply to those receiving disability benefits. However, someone who is added to the background check system before retirement age would remain there after retirement age.

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said he didn't know how he could explain to his constituents that Congress was making it easier rather than harder for people with serious mental illness to have a gun.

"If you can't manage your own financial affairs, how can we expect that you're going to be a responsible steward of a dangerous, lethal firearm," Murphy said.

Make no mistake, this vote was really about deepening the gun industry's customer pool, at the expense of those in danger of hurting themselves or others.
— Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., argued that anyone who thinks they're treated unfairly can appeal, and are likely to win if they're not a danger to themselves or others. But Grassley said federal law requires a formal hearing and judgment before depriving someone of owning a firearm due to mental illness.

Gun rights groups weren't the only organizations upset about the Obama administration's regulation. The American Civil Liberties Union criticized it, too. The ACLU said the rule advanced a harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, "a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent." More than a dozen advocacy groups for the disabled also opposed the Obama administration's regulation.

The NAACP, the United States Conference of Mayors and the National League of Cities supported the Social Security Administration's efforts.

"This heartless resolution puts the most vulnerable Americans at risk," said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Make no mistake, this vote was really about deepening the gun industry's customer pool, at the expense of those in danger of hurting themselves or others."

Meanwhile, the GOP-led House will seek to rescind more Obama-era regulations later Wednesday, including a Labor Department rule that critics say unduly restricts efforts in some states to test unemployment insurance applicants for drug use.

[kail]

It might have been to vague of a bill tbh. Were there specifics on what disorders prevented gun ownership?

[munkeyinorbit]

The gun lobby just wants to sell more guns, crazy people make up what? 1% of the market?

I guess an extreme paranoid would find a .44 magnum comforting...

What are you even talking about? Is it your opinion that people with mental illnesses are not people so they do not deserve guns? If people are well enough to be in society, they should be allowed all of the freedoms that it entails. If you don't like that then maybe you should curtail gun rights for all people. Stop being a mental sickness bigot.

[Noxx79]

What are you even talking about? Is it your opinion that people with mental illnesses are not people so they do not deserve guns? If people are well enough to be in society, they should be allowed all of the freedoms that it entails. If you don't like that then maybe you should curtail gun rights for all people. Stop being a mental sickness bigot.

So all if that talk of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem" was bullshit. I figured as much.

[Jtbrig7390]

What are you even talking about? Is it your opinion that people with mental illnesses are not people so they do not deserve guns? If people are well enough to be in society, they should be allowed all of the freedoms that it entails. If you don't like that then maybe you should curtail gun rights for all people. Stop being a mental sickness bigot.

Wait......What......I........

Fuck it, at this point I don't even know why shit like this surprises me anymore.

[alexkeren]

It might have been to vague of a bill tbh. Were there specifics on what disorders prevented gun ownership?

No.

And what a lot of people avoid talking about is both the ACLU and quite a few advocacy groups for disabled have been against this reg since Day 1 because of it's utter vagueness.

- - - Updated - - -

So all if that talk of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem" was bullshit. I figured as much.

If somebody has an eating disorder, which is mental in nature, should they have their gun rights revoked? That's the problem with that bill, it was an umbrella of all mental disorders, but not all mental disorders lead to violent behavior against others.

[Deleted]

The gun lobby just wants to sell more guns, crazy people make up what? 1% of the market?

I guess an extreme paranoid would find a .44 magnum comforting.






http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...215-story.html

The Republican-led Senate voted Wednesday to block an Obama-era regulation that would prevent an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm. The measure now goes to President Donald Trump, who is expected to sign it.

The regulation was crafted as part of President Barack Obama's efforts to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, a 20-year-old man with a variety of impairments, including Asperger's syndrome and obsessive-compulsive disorder, shot and killed his mother at their home, then went to school where he killed the students, adults and himself.

The Obama administration rule required the Social Security Administration to send in the names of beneficiaries with mental impairments who also have a third party manage their benefits.

But lawmakers, with the backing of the National Rifle Association and advocacy groups for the disabled, opposed the regulation and encouraged Congress to undertake a rarely successful process designed to void regulations that Congress takes issue with.


The 57-43 vote to revoke the regulation sends the measure to Trump.

With a Republican ally in the White House, the GOP has moved aggressively on several fronts to rescind some of the Obama administration's final regulations on the environment, financial reporting and now guns. Under an expedited process established through the Congressional Review Act, a regulation is made invalid when a simple majority of both chambers pass a joint resolution of disapproval and the president signs it.

With Trump in the limelight, Republicans rush to repeal Obama's work
With Trump in the limelight, Republicans rush to repeal Obama's work
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, spearheaded the repeal effort and said the regulation unfairly stigmatizes the disabled and infringes on their constitutional right to bear arms. He said that the mental disorders covered through the regulation are filled with "vague characteristics that do not fit into the federal mentally defective standard" prohibiting someone from buying or owning a gun.

Grassley cited eating and sleep disorders as examples of illnesses that could allow a beneficiary to be reported to the background check system if they also have a third party to manage their benefits.

"If a specific individual is likely to be violent due to the nature of their mental illness, then the government should have to prove it," Grassley said.

The rule isn't scheduled to go into effect until December. It only would apply to those receiving disability benefits. However, someone who is added to the background check system before retirement age would remain there after retirement age.

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said he didn't know how he could explain to his constituents that Congress was making it easier rather than harder for people with serious mental illness to have a gun.

"If you can't manage your own financial affairs, how can we expect that you're going to be a responsible steward of a dangerous, lethal firearm," Murphy said.

Make no mistake, this vote was really about deepening the gun industry's customer pool, at the expense of those in danger of hurting themselves or others.
— Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., argued that anyone who thinks they're treated unfairly can appeal, and are likely to win if they're not a danger to themselves or others. But Grassley said federal law requires a formal hearing and judgment before depriving someone of owning a firearm due to mental illness.

Gun rights groups weren't the only organizations upset about the Obama administration's regulation. The American Civil Liberties Union criticized it, too. The ACLU said the rule advanced a harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, "a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent." More than a dozen advocacy groups for the disabled also opposed the Obama administration's regulation.

The NAACP, the United States Conference of Mayors and the National League of Cities supported the Social Security Administration's efforts.

"This heartless resolution puts the most vulnerable Americans at risk," said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Make no mistake, this vote was really about deepening the gun industry's customer pool, at the expense of those in danger of hurting themselves or others."

Meanwhile, the GOP-led House will seek to rescind more Obama-era regulations later Wednesday, including a Labor Department rule that critics say unduly restricts efforts in some states to test unemployment insurance applicants for drug use.

"Mental disorder" is as stated, a very vague term. There's nothing remarkable about them wanting to stop this due to that reason. They give the example that anything could qualify as a mental disorder and be a hindrance.

On the other hand, the law would also be good and useful. So eh, I dunno.

[Machismo]

Sweet, freedom wins. It's had a rough go of things since this bullshit administration took over, but this helps a little bit.

[Belize]

What are you even talking about? Is it your opinion that people with mental illnesses are not people so they do not deserve guns? If people are well enough to be in society, they should be allowed all of the freedoms that it entails. If you don't like that then maybe you should curtail gun rights for all people. Stop being a mental sickness bigot.

We need to stop being disability bigots and let blind people drive too!

Preach!

[araine]

So all if that talk of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem" was bullshit. I figured as much.

We always knew that was nothing but a nonsense right wing conservative talking point without any substance in it

[RampageBW1]

Well, if the reason that the bill got struck down was really because it placed all mental illness under an umbrella, then they should write a new one that specifies which mental disorders would prevent gun ownership.

Schizophrenics would be one. Oh wait, that would exclude all the mainstream bible thumpers whom go on TV and proclaim that god told them to this, or to do that. Yes, I am being hyperbolic there, want to fight about it?

[Cthulhu 2020]

This bill blocked gun ownership for people who are incapable of handling their own financial and legal affairs from owning a gun, i.e. people who needed a legal guardian or representative for EVERYTHING. People who are so far mentally gone that they cannot legally or financially make their own decisions.

So yeah, we apparently want people who are simply THAT mentally ill to own guns.

And this comes after years of heated debates about gun control, and gun rights advocates saying "Guns aren't the problem when it comes to mass shootings, it's mental illness".

[Slicer299]

Lies, the law was targeted at people on social security who need help with managing their finances. That's it. It does nothing to reverse existing laws that already bar the mentally ill from owning or purchasing firearms. The law was nothing but a back handed gun grab, a sad last ditch effort for Obama to pass some form of gun control and confiscation. But a person who has trouble balancing a checkbook is insufficient legal grounds to prevent that person from exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

This bill blocked gun ownership for people who are incapable of handling their own financial and legal affairs from owning a gun, i.e. people who needed a legal guardian or representative for EVERYTHING. People who are so far mentally gone that they cannot legally or financially make their own decisions.

So yeah, we apparently want people who are simply THAT mentally ill to own guns.

And this comes after years of heated debates about gun control, and gun rights advocates saying "Guns aren't the problem when it comes to mass shootings, it's mental illness".

Not true, some of the first people targeted by Obama under the law were never in such a situation. A guy authorizing his wife to handle and cash his social security check was enough to ban them from owning a gun under the rule. Someone being declared "financial incompetent" has nothing to do with their ability or right to own a gun. People who have been treated for actual mental illness, such as bipolar, suicide attempts, etc, still can't buy or own guns. This law was about nothing more than grabbing guns. There aren't even any actual numbers to even attempt to justify the law. People are acting like the elderly are gunning people down in the streets.

[Hctaz]

What are you even talking about? Is it your opinion that people with mental illnesses are not people so they do not deserve guns? If people are well enough to be in society, they should be allowed all of the freedoms that it entails. If you don't like that then maybe you should curtail gun rights for all people. Stop being a mental sickness bigot.

As somebody with depression, I think it's absolutely stupid to let somebody with any mental disorder own a gun. They sometimes aren't in their right minds and they shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun for when they snap into an alternative reality or manic mood.

[Hctaz]

So are we afraid someone with pica might try to eat the gun?

Hot damn I would be. And then it'll discharge in their mouths.

I'm only slightly joking.

But I guess I should clarify and say that any mental disorder that makes them potentially dangerous to others or themselves at all. Pica is probably not grounds to remove a gun from somebody's hand lol

[starlord]

wonder when they will repeal the lautenberg amendment.

[Mormolyce]

We must stop those evil immigrants from coming into our country! They could bring terrorist attacks to our soil!

(On average 9 Americans died each year since 9/11 due to acts of terrorism, none of which were committed by people from the countries in the ban)

But let's let the mentally ill buy guns.

(Firearm related homicide rate in the us each year: ~10,000. Does not include ~21,000 suicides.)

So are we afraid someone with pica might try to eat the gun?

Pica wouldn't meet the criteria of this order. You have to be unable to work as a result of a mental health issue, and unable to manage your own finances. I think.

Though it's hard to tell since google is flooded with news stories and op eds about this and it's really hard to find the actual text of the law.

[Glorious Leader]

The bill was necessarily broad. Classifying mental disorders is not always a precise science nor can we necessarily know with any high degree of accuracy or specifity the harm that mentally indivudals.may do to themselves or others.

[Sharkconas]

The real problem here is, will they address the actual problem with a more specific bill or do they do the good old ignorance shuffle until its re addressed in 2 to 4 years ?

[Mormolyce]

Just curious but where did you get those stats about guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

Ultimately CDC stats.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm