Should the game have MORE exclusive content?

[Dormie]

Yep. Let's go ahead and backtrack the advancements made in the most successful expansion of all time so we can have content designed for 1% of the player population. Absolutely brilliant! I have one question, though. With an intellect as immense and far reaching as yours, why are you posting on MMO-C instead of curing cancer, solving world hunger and bringing peace to all nations?

See my concern is making a good game, not letting every pleb with a keyboard have their participation trophy.

[Relapses]

See my concern is making a good game, not letting every pleb with a keyboard have their participation trophy.

Then you shouldn't be nearly as concerned when nobody plays your awesome fucking super hard MMO as it dies off in obscurity. Say hi to Wildstar on your way down!

[Heathy]

is it really just a good game if the chance to succeed is based on a small chance of various things happening within very small margins of one another. waiting for the stars to align doesn't equal a good game to me, just one with very small margins for error.

although the game is very much dominated by 20-30yr olds, its still a game that includes children in its target audience which means its always going to have participation trophy levels of content difficulty.

there was a time when i felt extremely elitist about the game, those days are gone for me, i play to have fun not to shit on everyone for not being l33t.

mythic raiding still gives the best base rewards, the best gear before wf/tf still drops from mythic raiding. m+15 only gives a base 900 and only 1 per week. there is still a gear pinnacle, there is still a version of the content that not many ppl get to do for various reason but probably either they aren't skilled enough or don't have time to wipe all day every day until they get it right.

if we didn't have the difficulty scaling and were still going through the old style of 1 version of each raid, that version today would be heroic, not mythic. it would be challenging for a lot of ppl but the top end would still find it a breeze.

[Dormie]

Then you shouldn't be nearly as concerned when nobody plays your awesome fucking super hard MMO as it dies off in obscurity. Say hi to Wildstar on your way down!

Is that all you've got?

[Relapses]

Is that all you've got?

You're encouraging a game design which has failed repeatedly. What more do I need to say?

[Flurryfang]

I believe that there should be alot more exclusive cosmetic items in all high tier areas of WoW. Mythic raiders should get alot more rewards depending on activity, high skilled RBG/Arena players should get alot more, same with people who rather extreme amounts of toys and mounts, and even Pet Battle players should see some high rewards in the skilled game.

If you are putting in a high amount of effort in WoW, you should get rewarded with stuff that every casual player would want. Blizz should use exclusive items alot more as a carrot on a stick for players, who yet does not feel the push to put more energi into the game. So while it might not be power, it would be good if it was something like bag space, movement improvments(walking on water/walls, double jumping mounts or flying for small periods) or even just gear with insane effects. I don't think there is enough reward material in the game atm, so it would be great with something like that.

PS: Also, higher gear is not a reward. 910 item lvl gear might seem good for somebody iwth 830 item lvl, but the closer you get to that number, the less it matters. So gear will rarely push a normal/heroic player to jump into mythic. Might be for a few, but its not a universal cookie.

[Requimortem]

Couldn't say, since I don't have Legion. Hence the partially serious quip about it being WoD's fault.

Based on feedback from forums plus long time friends (some who still play WoW to this day, others who have quit at various points), I've drawn the conclusion I haven't missed anything. Having more fun playing other games at this point.

You did yourself a huge favor and I envy you for that. There's nothing that can redeem this game at this point because Blizzard continues making nothing but bad decisions and the idiots continue to support them.

[Vlyse]

No, the game should have more accessible and relevant content for everyone. To me, that would involve it being required to progress in all raids of every expansion in order of it being released, by level. Why call the addons "expansions" if it's just a reinvention of the existing game and making all prior content obsolete/no longer required?

Anywho, this for another thread it's an obvious blizzard design choice and probably the more successful business model..

[Dormie]

You're encouraging a game design which has failed repeatedly. What more do I need to say?

lol it has never failed. It's failed by your metrics of what you think a game should be.
The best and most sophisticated things in the world are appreciated by few. The shittiest and most generic things are what appeal to masses. It's how it works.

[daenerys]

It's a matter of time and resources. It just doesn't make sense to spend 20% of your resources designing content that only 0.5% of the player base will see. This is the primary reason they added multiple difficulties to raids in the first place because certain old school raids were seen by less than 1% of the player base, and it was hard justifying the massive resources that went into the design.

[Relapses]

lol it has never failed. It's failed by your metrics of what you think a game should be.
The best and most sophisticated things in the world are appreciated by few. The shittiest and most generic things are what appeal to masses. It's how it works.

Yeah, those stupid inconvenient metrics like, "people actually playing the fucking game."

[Dormie]

Yeah, those stupid inconvenient metrics like, "people actually playing the fucking game."

No one played during BC? I guess I was off.
And again, you're trading quality for accessibility. I'm talking about pure quality. I'm not saying WoW can pull it off, especially at this point.

[Granyala]

I think the game needs to return to MORE exclusivity, not less. Which is why I think keeping content off the queue is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.
People should be required to put effort into the game to experience the exclusive content.

Not having stuff in the queue that is easily doable by queued groups is dumb design.

As for the "work" part: I'm a grown up now. I work every day in the real world and I work when I learn for my musical instrument.
The amount of work I am willing to put into a video game is severely limited and much smaller than it used to be in my Kiddo/Student days.

WoW has plenty of exclusive content (Mythic raiding, ranked PvP stuff) and doesn't need more.

[Relapses]

No one played during BC? I guess I was off.
And again, you're trading quality for accessibility. I'm talking about pure quality.

Ah right, I forgot we live in the time machine known as "the internet" and it is in fact still the year 2007, therefore the same exact circumstances which allowed WoW to be successful a decade ago are entirely applicable today.

[Granyala]

And again, you're trading quality for accessibility. I'm talking about pure quality. I'm not saying WoW can pull it off, especially at this point.

While I prefer to not have a gazillion versions of the same boss: TBCs design had huge and painful flaws, esp when you were not lucky enough to be in a top raiding guild, like me back in the day.
Gotta go to work, so I don't have the time to spell it out. If you played TBC and have a clear memory, you should be aware of the flaws.

[Heathy]

sunwell was just naxx all over again. they inflated t6 added no extra set bonus, out of all the tiers / raids, its probably the worst one to want all raids to be designed around. my guild was very active in tbc and we had everything farmed upto and including bt, but there was no real point in putting any focus on sunwell it really didn't last long. i think we managed to kill a couple bosses in there then wrath was released and everything was obsolete again.

it ended up being just another raid that was tuned around the 1%. the boss mechanics were interesting, although there just wasn't enough time to get good enough to do well in there. or rather the only ppl who were able to get enough gear to make any significant progress were the 1% raiders the ppl who raid 4-7 days a week and never have a cancelled raid.

[dacoolist]

WB JL! But yea, for me - I barely knock out the AOTC content while it's available (Ahead of the curve & Challenger) - the high level content is pretty daunting - I don't have time to dedicate myself and time to strictly progress on just one piece of content/don't have the people. I think it's fine if blizz gives the high level players mounts titles achieves and sometimes gear colors/chants - that are only accessible to other high level players / but because only 5,000 out of 5,000,000 play at that level (maybe 150 per server?) - I doubt blizz cares enough to add more special snowflake stuff to the game.

[Dormie]

While I prefer to not have a gazillion versions of the same boss: TBCs design had huge and painful flaws, esp when you were not lucky enough to be in a top raiding guild, like me back in the day.
Gotta go to work, so I don't have the time to spell it out. If you played TBC and have a clear memory, you should be aware of the flaws.

I'd rather have a consistent goal with real progression all expansion than feel like I'm done after LFR if I don't feel like challenging myself. The guild poaching thing was overblown, it happened, but it still happens. Guilds nowadays tend to hit skill caps where a few weak raiders impede progression, the good raiders end up going to a guild where they know they'll keep progressing. I've seen my guild go through like 4 cycles of that since BRF.

[Heathy]

the consistent goal is to get better gear than what your wearing, if you don't want a challenge after looking for raid, there is nothing that can be done, you are essentially burnt out and don't want to actually play and are looking for reasons to whine, while also making no sense in doing so, if you don't want to challenge yourself nothing can be done about that, you are effectively saying ' I want to progress, i want it to not be face roll, but i don't want a challenge'

what your saying is a contradiction.

you can't progress without a challenge. you can reach a certain point but eventually you have to challenge yourself to progress.

[Dormie]

the consistent goal is to get better gear than what your wearing, if you don't want a challenge after looking for raid, there is nothing that can be done, you are essentially burnt out and don't want to actually play and are looking for reasons to whine, while also making no sense in doing so, if you don't want to challenge yourself nothing can be done about that, you are effectively saying ' I want to progress, i want it to not be face roll, but i don't want a challenge'

what your saying is a contradiction.

you can't progress without a challenge. you can reach a certain point but eventually you have to challenge yourself to progress.

I want a challenge, but not for the sake of a challenge. I want an authentic challenge, not, here that was too easy so we boosted all the numbers up. If there is no reward other than the challenge (which is essentially what mythic is) I'm not interested long-term. I don't consider skins or numbers content. The challenge isn't my motivation, but the journey should be a "challenge".

Look at Mythic+ compared to previous expansions Challenge Modes. Essentially the same exact thing. I never cared about time trials, skins, or challenging myself artificially, so I never did Challenge Modes. But I do care about making progression and that progression being contingent on a challenge (beating the timers for 3 chest), so I DO find Mythic+ attractive even though they play exactly the same as Challenge Modes(minus affixes).