It's fucking stupid LFR raiders have to wait this long

[Kazuchika]

No its not stupid... it should be the way it used to be, no LFR - need a premade group to do raids.
LFR is only harmful to the community... many people stopped real raiding because LFR lets them see the bosses anyway, so on realms that were already low pop are now struggling for recruits. I remember the days when the top guilds on realms had loads of applications and most were declined and only few accepted, now its the other way around...
And its not an excuse to have jobs... many people in my guild too have jobs and they raid well only 3 days a week, top of the connected realm in mythic kills. You dont need to sacrifice real life to raid anymore.

My mythic guild also cant let go of anyone, we cant just kick people because they dont perform well enough... we dont have replacements and only getting like a couple applications a month at best. So have to go with what we have... bosses do eventually die but then theres also some players who are almost always late on raids... yet again, cant kick them because there are not enough recruits.

if LFR went away... it would surely put people back into the raiding mood and they would seek out guilds to raid with.

Oh please players are so coddled now Blizzard caves at even the slightest indication entitled babies are gonna take their wallets elsewhere.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm not convinced. If that's the case, and LFR is what matters, why do we have the other difficulties?

Its almost like having content to do keeps people playing...

Some stop at LFR, Some stop at NM and others won't stop until mythic. Its to cater to many play styles, After all there is millions of people playing this game.

[snackfeat]

So what? That doesn't have a damn thing to do with the reason for delaying it.

DO you people just post shit like this because you're insecure? A kid? No one gives a flying fuck if you dislike LFR.

And no one gives a fuck if you are unhappy about the time gate on LFR, deal with your trash tier content and be glad it even exists.

[Jtbrig7390]

if LFR went away... it would surely put people back into the raiding mood and they would seek out guilds to raid with.

You do realize before LFR less then 20% ever did NM raiding and less then 10% ever did Heroic(mythic at the time) right?

People won't just step up, They will quit.

[Otaka]

Ya you are correct if LFR was removed raids may still continue. The budget and quality on the other hand is a different story.

The quality would improve because they dont have to worry about casuals not being able to kill a boss... they dont have to think about what abilities they can take out and what they cant. All the abilities the bosses use on normal and higher are conveniently something that can be removed without breaking the boss encounter itself.
If they didnt have to worry about that the bosses could get more complex environmentally and thus exciting. Like Heigan in Naxxramas... safety dance!

[Jtbrig7390]

The quality would improve because they dont have to worry about casuals not being able to kill a boss... they dont have to think about what abilities they can take out and what they cant. All the abilities the bosses use on normal and higher are conveniently something that can be removed without breaking the boss encounter itself.
If they didnt have to worry about that the bosses could get more complex environmentally and thus exciting. Like Heigan in Naxxramas... safety dance!

I don't think you know what the word quality means....

I wasn't talking about boss ability's champ, Toning down or removing ability's takes less work then you think.

[Otaka]

You do realize before LFR less then 20% ever did NM raiding and less then 10% ever did Heroic(mythic at the time) right?

People won't just step up, They will quit.

where do you get those numbers anyway? Today less than 1% is raiding properly. 20% is 20 times more. (not even sure what your numbers actually keep in them right? many people have multiple alts... even i have 5 110's but i only raid with one, so that can easily skew the numbers when everyone has)

It doesnt matter if its normal or heroic... its still what raiding is about, forming a group of heroes and killing bosses that are not as easy as 5 man dungeon bosses.
Not queueing for magical teleportation to get into a dungeon that literally serves no purpose other than giving free loot.

OpenRaid was popular because of that reason... people who didnt have time to raid every week could join a pug with likeminded people and do the raid atleast once during the expansion. OpenRaid pretty much died after LFR was introduced.

[clevin]

And no one gives a fuck if you are unhappy about the time gate on LFR, deal with your trash tier content and be glad it even exists.

Go clean your room kid... we're trying to have an adult discussion here.

[Jtbrig7390]

where do you get those numbers anyway?

You do realize there is websites that track raid clears....

Also.....

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts

LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.

This stance has clearly not changed, Even more so since they reverted back to the MOP model.

Can you provide any data saying different?

Also

It doesnt matter if its normal or heroic... its still what raiding is about, forming a group of heroes and killing bosses that are not as easy as 5 man dungeon bosses.

Only the bolded part of what you said matters, The rest is opinion at best. Also LFR (and LFD) achieve this. Also LFR bosses are harder then 5man dungeon bosses...

[Andonais]

I dont mind it being gated but 2 weeks per gates is too long.

[Kelz]

Sorry, but I disagree. When go to do look more like, you have to consider as decided the need to go want to look. If you merely decided as to think to half of that, you might as well go to a floor towards as the far. I can't believe you deny the use of further deciding to even want to do look more like, when the rest of us have decided to need a want. Go ahead, go want to do look more like further than a half. It gets you nowhere, I can tell you that.

Serious question, I know English is not your native tongue, but are you using google translate? That entire response made absolutely no sense. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious if you're using google translate to type responses.

[Hctaz]

Because why the fuck would I want to waste hours of my time doing normal raids waiting for groups to fill up when I could do something fun instead?

Join a guild and raid every Tuesday/Wednesday for two hours and clear all of normal then. No waiting required except for waiting for your raid to start at 7.

[Otaka]

I don't think you know what the word quality means....

I wasn't talking about boss ability's champ, Toning down or removing ability's takes less work then you think.

Its not about just toning down or removing, its about designing the whole encounter to be ABLE to remove those abilities and make it easier. They have to think about this the moment they are designing it, not after its already being scripted.
Most mythic bosses now are diarhea in the journal... 20+ abilities including different changes of which over half are removed to make LFR... if this was not the case they could use less amount of abilities and make them have a bigger impact on the raiding surface.
Like Lich King, in the end he doesnt have alot of abilities but they are all unique and not simply more powerful versions of the same thing that appear in P3 and not in P1.

If LK had an LFR version they would probably remove the shadow traps that knockback people but nothing else, just tone down every damage component otherwise... and guess what that does? it literally gives normal/heroic/mythic nothing new after youve done LFR, that would kill raiding even quicker.

[Effenz]

Join a guild and raid every Tuesday/Wednesday for two hours and clear all of normal then. No waiting required except for waiting for your raid to start at 7.

but i dont want to apply to guilds and have strange kids bark orders at me!

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Its not about just toning down or removing, its about designing the whole encounter to be ABLE to remove those abilities and make it easier. They have to think about this the moment they are designing it, not after its already being scripted.
Most mythic bosses now are diarhea in the journal... 20+ abilities including different changes of which over half are removed to make LFR... if this was not the case they could use less amount of abilities and make them have a bigger impact on the raiding surface.
Like Lich King, in the end he doesnt have alot of abilities but they are all unique and not simply more powerful versions of the same thing that appear in P3 and not in P1.

If LK had an LFR version they would probably remove the shadow traps that knockback people but nothing else, just tone down every damage component otherwise... and guess what that does? it literally gives normal/heroic/mythic nothing new after youve done LFR, that would kill raiding even quicker.

I just did nightspire lfr for kicks and holy hell it's the most i've seen anything been gutted.

And people still manage to fall off the bridge on krosus

[Jtbrig7390]

Its not about just toning down or removing, its about designing the whole encounter to be ABLE to remove those abilities and make it easier. They have to think about this the moment they are designing it, not after its already being scripted.

You do realize that they have even came out and stated they start making raids at the heroic mode level and tune above and below that as they need.

You clearly don't have the slightest clue about game development, So its best to not speak like you do.

[Hctaz]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts


This stance has clearly not changed, Even more so since they reverted back to the MOP model.

Can you provide any data saying different?

I don't know where their stance on "Oh hey we need LFR to put more bosses in the game"

Every previous expansion had raids filled with shit tons of bosses. It wasn't until Firelands/Dragon Soul that they started skimping out on bosses for some reason. Maybe whatever new team took over the raiding scene after the old dudes left feel this way, but I bet you that removing LFR and introducing the flexible mode at the same time would have had the same result. If they had just done flex mode instead of LFR from the beginning then it would have also most likely produced the same effect. LFR players can gtfo honestly anyway. Keep the ones who decide that normal isn't that bad.

Only the bolded part of what you said matters, The rest is opinion at best. Also LFR (and LFD) achieve this. Also LFR bosses are harder then 5man dungeon bosses...

LFR and LFD don't achieve this. You aren't even grouping with people. Queueing to get placed in with randos is not really grouping up to kill hard boss content. Hell, I could probably two man most or all of EN and NH LFR with myself and a healer. The other 23 people are irrelevant and just reduce the time it takes to kill shit.

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but i dont want to apply to guilds and have strange kids bark orders at me!

I'm assuming sarcasm, right? It's pretty low maintenance to join a guild who only does normal mode content.

[Jtbrig7390]

You aren't even grouping with people.

Wait what........

That is some new level mental gymnastics, I guess those other 4-24 people in my group are not really in my group.

[Risale]

There are plenty of guilds that do normal so try them out.
If you are flush in gold by yourself a HC clear my guild and many more offer that service, when we finish Mythic we will sell that also.
And lets be fair LFR is really a joke in its current state I mean I did the first wing today on my main for AP and a shot at a legendary and everything was dead inside 20 minutes it was just one massive chain pull and the other wings are just the same. and this was on last day before reset when most peeps have rushed LFR on reset day.

[Effenz]

I don't know where their stance on "Oh hey we need LFR to put more bosses in the game"

Every previous expansion had raids filled with shit tons of bosses. It wasn't until Firelands/Dragon Soul that they started skimping out on bosses for some reason. Maybe whatever new team took over the raiding scene after the old dudes left feel this way, but I bet you that removing LFR and introducing the flexible mode at the same time would have had the same result. If they had just done flex mode instead of LFR from the beginning then it would have also most likely produced the same effect. LFR players can gtfo honestly anyway. Keep the ones who decide that normal isn't that bad.



LFR and LFD don't achieve this. You aren't even grouping with people. Queueing to get placed in with randos is not really grouping up to kill hard boss content. Hell, I could probably two man most or all of EN and NH LFR with myself and a healer. The other 23 people are irrelevant and just reduce the time it takes to kill shit.

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I'm assuming sarcasm, right? It's pretty low maintenance to join a guild who only does normal mode content.

yes, babygirl.
and eh, I wouldn't say that they skimped on bosses in cata, since a lot of icc bosses (most) had less mechanics than BoT>firelands bosses. They didn't have any major lore bosses other than Arthas in ICC throughout WoTLK either, so there wasn't much to see. I think as they brought the encounter complexity up along with the 4 different versions, they realized that they should prob make it so these assets werent wasted and thus lfr was made. It's a lot less "hey, we need lfr players dollars to make raids" and more "we made this cool shit that costs a lot, let the shitty kids see it since they do pay a sub, too"
I do agree that flex shouldve been the way they went, though.

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Wait what........

That is some new level mental gymnastics, I guess those other 4-24 people in my group are not really in my group.

They aren't. You're just random strangers that daddy blizzard put in the same guided tour.

[Jtbrig7390]

They aren't. You're just random strangers that daddy blizzard put in the same guided tour.

Then LFG isn't grouping ether since its random strangers.

Like I said, The mental gymnastics people like you do is fucken amazing.