What makes WF/TF a problem for people?

[Teri]

So from the "worst feature of legion" thread, a ton of people mention Warforge Titanforge as one of the main issues, without explanation.

Why is that exactly.

Scenario 1:
Player 1 complains about Player 2 getting a 925 item from LFR/WQ, this has an astronomical low chance on a BiS piece you might see it happen maybe once or twice on the same player within current content. (7.2 will likely raise the TF limit again) To me this is just elitism and not a flaw in the system. Also Tier gear only comes from LFR or higher raids.

- No problem here as there is no way you can a full 925 BIS gear set from 860, even if it happens on 1 piece, it's not 12 (14 slots, 2 legendaries)
I think a lot of this comes from an illusion that it seems to happen all the time cause 1 player out of 25 might get a high titanforge, it doesn't mean they get 10+ pieces that way without some insane amount of lottery luck.

Seems like a player created problem of feeling all high and mighty having high raid gear and caring too much about other people's gear. (those people often tend to call casuals/LFR plebs/scrubs etc to inflate their ego.

Scenario 2:
Player 1 Farms heroic nighthold, Player 2 Farms mythic Nighthold. Player 1 wants the same itemlevel as player 2 but not step in mythic, player 1's heroic gear always needs to titanforge to be on par with mythic, mythic gear in turn can go 15-25 beyond it's base to hit the 925 cap.

- No problem here , player 1 doesn't do the highest designed difficulty raid content and expect to have the same gear, however player 1 always needs RNG to go Titanforge, while player 2's gear titanforge is a bonus. This is a Player created problem.

Scenario 3:
Mythic Raider 1 has a BIS item go 925 Titanforge, but instead of a socket you get Leech or Avoidance.

- No problem here, yes it's shit bad luck RNG, but really nit picking at this point unless you are 925+ equip.

[Justpassing]

So from the "worst feature of legion" thread, a ton of people mention Warforge Titanforge as one of the main issues, without explanation.

Why is that exactly.

Scenario 1:
Player 1 complains about Player 2 getting a 925 item from LFR/WQ, this has an astronomical low chance on a BiS piece you might see it happen maybe once or twice on the same player within current content. (7.2 will likely raise the TF limit again) To me this is just elitism and not a flaw in the system. Also Tier gear only comes from LFR or higher raids.

- No problem here as there is no way you can a full 925 BIS gear set from 860, even if it happens on 1 piece, it's not 12 (14 slots, 2 legendaries)
I think a lot of this comes from an illusion that it seems to happen all the time cause 1 player out of 25 might get a high titanforge, it doesn't mean they get 10+ pieces that way without some insane amount of lottery luck

Scenario 2:
Player 1 Farms heroic nighthold, Player 2 Farms mythic Nighthold. Player 1 wants the same itemlevel as player 2 but not step in mythic, player 1's heroic gear always needs to titanforge to be on par with mythic, mythic gear in turn can go 15-25 beyond it's base to hit the 925 cap.

- No problem here , player 1 doesn't do the highest designed difficulty raid content and expect to have the same gear, however player 1 always needs RNG to go Titanforge, while player 2's gear titanforge is a bonus. This is a Player created problem.

Scenario 3:
Mythic Raider 1 has a BIS item go 925 Titanforge, but instead of a socket you get Leech or Avoidance.

- No problem here, yes it's shit bad luck RNG, but really nit picking at this point unless you are 925+ equip.

That's why. Some things shouldn't be left to RNG.

[Deleted]

The only issue i have is that it keeps items from the dungeons relevant, especially trinkets. This means that every new raid NEEDS to have better trinkets/OP compared to the dungeons, this is a issue (See Convergence especially)

[Teri]

That's why. Some things shouldn't be left to RNG.

You rather have a low% drop, you might see once in 50 boss kills? Over a BONUS stat?

As that's what the game always had, some tier pieces/weapons only dropped once every few months out of 25 or 40 people.

[Ghrog]

So from the "worst feature of legion" thread, a ton of people mention Warforge Titanforge as one of the main issues, without explanation.

Why is that exactly.

Scenario 1:
Player 1 complains about Player 2 getting a 925 item from LFR/WQ, this has an astronomical low chance on a BiS piece you might see it happen maybe once or twice on the same player within current content. (7.2 will likely raise the TF limit again) To me this is just elitism and not a flaw in the system. Also Tier gear only comes from LFR or higher raids.

- No problem here as there is no way you can a full 925 BIS gear set from 860, even if it happens on 1 piece, it's not 12 (14 slots, 2 legendaries)
I think a lot of this comes from an illusion that it seems to happen all the time cause 1 player out of 25 might get a high titanforge, it doesn't mean they get 10+ pieces that way without some insane amount of lottery luck. Seems like a player created problem of feeling all high and mighty having high raid gear and caring too much about other people's gear. (those people often tend to call casuals/LFR plebs/scrubs etc to inflate their ego

Scenario 2:
Player 1 Farms heroic nighthold, Player 2 Farms mythic Nighthold. Player 1 wants the same itemlevel as player 2 but not step in mythic, player 1's heroic gear always needs to titanforge to be on par with mythic, mythic gear in turn can go 15-25 beyond it's base to hit the 925 cap.

- No problem here , player 1 doesn't do the highest designed difficulty raid content and expect to have the same gear, however player 1 always needs RNG to go Titanforge, while player 2's gear titanforge is a bonus. This is a Player created problem.

Scenario 3:
Mythic Raider 1 has a BIS item go 925 Titanforge, but instead of a socket you get Leech or Avoidance.

- No problem here, yes it's shit bad luck RNG, but really nit picking at this point unless you are 925+ equip.

Because some people aren't happy unless they are complaining about something. Some of these are the same kinds of people that could get sexual favors from their favorite supermodel/porn star while watching their favorite team win a championship from the most comfortable recliner in the world while eating a cheeseburger, but then complain that the cheese was american instead of cheddar and say the whole thing was ruined.

[Frolk]

WF/TF never been an issue for me, gives me an reason to do EN/ToV norm/hc each week outside of the AP.

If some random LFR player gets an 925 item, good for him, he is prolly never gonna do norm/hc anyway, so it will be his one and only 925item this tier.

[Re1ax]

If you're an LFR/normal mode player then yeah, this system probably is fine for you. For everyone else it sucks dick.

[Glaziola]

If you're an LFR/normal mode player then yeah, this system probably is fine for you. For everyone else it sucks dick.

Exactly as world quester and LFR raider im pretty happy to sometimes see 880+ items
I hope the system stays in future expansions too.

[Heladys]

It's just something else for people with borderline personality disorders to bitch about and blame their own failures upon.

[Deleted]

Now look at this scenario.
Player is in a semi-hardcore mythic guild. He enjoys raiding 3 days a week and clearing mythic maybe a month or two after the world first, but still at a respectable pace before the next content patch, and has done so in the last several expansion packs.
His guild has a mix of players, everyone is at least decent but really good players are scarce. There is some struggling with mechanics and DPS checks.

Some of his guild members play alts, and do weekly clears of heroic and normal raids. Player only really cares about mythic and doesn't participate, but some other players join on their mains to help out. These other players are now getting triple the chance for good legendaries, plus the occasional TF loot. Their artifact weapons are also higher level. Although our player is present on all mythic raids with 100% attendance, others in the guild who can stomach running boring content and the same raid 3 times a week are slowly outgearing him. Player now faces getting sat out because he has simply lower item level and others can do more dps, which will compensate for having not so good players in the guild and having a hard time with dps checks.
Player can no longer enjoy the single reason he was playing the game in the last 5+ years, which is mythic raids only. Either he has to do shitty, boring easy content that he loaths or he will be simply left behind.

[RoKPaNda]

It really isn't a problem. It's only ever a problem if you're in that 2% that raids Mythic. Nobody else is dedicated enough to actually give a shit. It's mostly just tryhards regurgitating what people in the world first race whined about. WF/TF is probably one of the better things the WoW devs have come up with in the last half a decade.

[Effenz]

WF/TF is an issue because people cannot get ridiculous upgrades from doing low content whenever they please.

- - - Updated - - -

It really isn't a problem. It's only ever a problem if you're in that 2% that raids Mythic. Nobody else is dedicated enough to actually give a shit. It's mostly just tryhards regurgitating what people in the world first race whined about. WF/TF is probably one of the better things the WoW devs have come up with in the last half a decade.

It's not even an issue for people who raid mythic, tbqh. It's a nice bonus if you do low content.

[Youn]

It's only a problem for people with OCD and a desire to have the BIS list for their spec.

[Boyinawell]

The extra stats are nice but a lot of people hated things like ToV, where the average kill ilvl was higher then the gear dropping. That means that WF/TF isn't a "bonus", it means WF/TF is considered the baseline useful gear, and normal ilvl gear is useless.

It's going to be a snowball problem. Either blizz tunes content for base ilvl, which is then too Easy because of the amount of WF/TF high ilvl people already have, or they tune it for an average amount of WF/TF, which makes base ilvl gear not good enough, and makes WF/TF the new norm. This is similar to the issue with AP that they are trying to fix in 7.2.

[HordeFanboy]

TF system=RNG clownfieste
Add some double RNG from Legiondares
Good job you created the most trolling/frustrating/triple RNG garbage in game industry.
Not even mention mythic gear from WQ lol

[Heathy]

I don't get the complaints, i've played nearly every iteration of the itemization and the tf/wf system is by far the best system for surprise loots, with static loots its nice when you get it, but the surprise over it rolling higher is just not there. so getting static loot is like 'cool it dropped!' then getting tf is like 'holy shit it rolled TF!!'

more loot excitement from tf rolls, sure i can imagine if you are right now farming a specific dungeon for a specific TF roll, you are probably bashing your head against the wall, don't rely on the roll, just be happy when it happens.

honestly no one would prefer the alternative, the rng has been way way worst in the past. i have witnessed what the rng can be like and WF/TF is much more tame than what it was like trying to get a 1% drop item.

I mean you can test it right now, go farm stratholm for barons mount and tell me how many runs it takes. thats the alternative to wf/tf. an equally long grind and equally bullshit rng, but that is what the game is, its all rng, if it wasn't there would be no surprises everything would be determined.

[Effenz]

The extra stats are nice but a lot of people hated things like ToV, where the average kill ilvl was higher then the gear dropping. That means that WF/TF isn't a "bonus", it means WF/TF is considered the baseline useful gear, and normal ilvl gear is useless.

It's going to be a snowball problem. Either blizz tunes content for base ilvl, which is then too Easy because of the amount of WF/TF high ilvl people already have, or they tune it for an average amount of WF/TF, which makes base ilvl gear not good enough, and makes WF/TF the new norm. This is similar to the issue with AP that they are trying to fix in 7.2.

What?
M ToV shat on everyone for a decent timeperiod. Ofc people doing N ToV in H EN gear are gonna roflstomp it.
M ToV was considered overtuned for quite a bit of time.


Maybe when people did ToV they did the appropriate difficulty for their ilvl instead of sailing through normal and complaining?

[Bevo]

I do not like it because someone who puts in less effort gets an equal reward. Let me give a comparision. Let's say this system was used in the Olympics.

For each race you have gold, silver, and bronze medals for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. However, let's say the person who finished 8th in the race rolled a Titanforged medal all the way up to gold. Don't you think that would make the people who performed better and put in the effort to win a medal legitimately would be a little pissed off because the 8th place guy got the same reward?

I certainly do.

[Heathy]

I do not like it because someone who puts in less effort gets an equal reward. Let me give a comparision. Let's say this system was used in the Olympics.

For each race you have gold, silver, and bronze medals for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. However, let's say the person who finished 8th in the race rolled a Titanforged medal all the way up to gold. Don't you think that would make the people who performed better and put in the effort to win a medal legitimately would be a little pissed off because the 8th place guy got the same reward?

I certainly do.

but its not the Olympics its a video game, meant for entertainment, its not a full time competitive tournament.

one person getting loot doesn't have an effect on your game play, likewise them getting said item doesn't effect your chances of also getting it. there is a skill cap in the game, there are 'tiers' of content and upgrade bottlenecks, you reach a certain ilvl and upgrades becomes less and less frequent to the point that you have to either wait for a new tier or up your game and run harder content.

I couldn't care less if some guy gets an 890 from a world quest and i had to run a challenging m+15 to get the same item, it doesn't bother me because i know what i had to do to get that item. thats what matters.

[Desparil]

Its not a problem its nice bonus if you get one. But if you are counting on getting something with that small chance to drop you are going to end up disappointed majority of time its not something thats made to be farmable.
One more + side is that it has loads of potential to make some people butthurt to see lfr people wearing "theirs" mythic level gear "undeserved" \o/.