Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Supercool]

Anyone who says "you had to farm four raid lockouts in Wrath" is lying or a fool.

Nobody who was clearing 25H "had to farm" 10N. There was just nothing there for you. You might farm 10H for that one really good trinket that everyone wanted or something better itemized than 25N loot. There were four lockouts, but realistically you only ever cared about 2-3 of them.

[Glorious Leader]

Legion and Wrath aren't even on the same measurement scale in regard to level of grind.

Saying they are is disingenuous at best, dishonest at worst.

It really isnt . Wrath had tonnes of shit to do AND YOU FUCKING PEOPLED WHINEd ABOUT IT THEN JUST AS YOU ARE NOW. So they started gutting it for a number of reasons but partially because they took the butthurt shit heel worlds 9999 complaint about forced rep grinds and valor caps and bis from 10 mans seriously

[IceMan1763]

It really isnt . Wrath had tonnes of shit to do AND YOU FUCKING PEOPLED WHINEd ABOUT IT THEN JUST AS YOU ARE NOW. So they started gutting it for a number of reasons but partially because they took the butthurt shit heel worlds 9999 complaint about forced rep grinds and valor caps and bis from 10 mans seriously

Yeah I never once whined about it and I can't recall seeing much critique about it on the forums.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone who says "you had to farm four raid lockouts in Wrath" is lying or a fool.

Nobody who was clearing 25H "had to farm" 10N. There was just nothing there for you. You might farm 10H for that one really good trinket that everyone wanted or something better itemized than 25N loot. There were four lockouts, but realistically you only ever cared about 2-3 of them.

One of the leaders of the fools or liars is quoted right above here.

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah I never once whined about it and I can't recall seeing much critique about it on the forums.

But but but my bis trinket is 10man!!! Wahhhhh i dont want to farm i want to raid log. You werent paying attention. Nrither were the developers apparently. It took em a solid 5 years or so before they realized throwing people like that under the bus was the best thing to do.

[IceMan1763]

But but but my bis trinket is 10man!!! Wahhhhh i dont want to farm i want to raid log. You werent paying attention. Nrither were the developers apparently. It took em a solid 5 years or so before they realized throwing people like that under the bus was the best thing to do.

By making the grind 10X worse? Good thinking... go against the design that had 12 million paying subs.

Maybe if they hire you to the team they can finally finish this sad game off.

[Glorious Leader]

By making the grind 10X worse? Good thinking... go against the design that had 12 million paying subs.

Maybe if they hire you to the team they can finally finish this sad game off.

Yea the design that worked wasnt gut every other fucking reward system so entitled dicks didnt feel pressured to do anything but raid. Which is precisely what they did. Legiom swings the balance back in favor of other people i.e raiderd and non raiders alike who play the game as a whole and want to do more than raid log and treat wow as a lobby game.

[Elim Garak]

Yea the design that worked wasnt gut every other fucking reward system so entitled dicks didnt feel pressured to do anything but raid. Which is precisely what they did. Legiom swings the balance back in favor of other people i.e raiderd and non raiders alike who play the game as a whole and want to do more than raid log and treat wow as a lobby game.

Yeah, and then they disable flying, good move.

[rebecca191]

I was a hardcore raider during WotLK with a US top 50 H25 Lich King kill. The time investment outside of raiding required to optimize your character for raiding was nowhere near what it is now.

Rep for head & shoulder enchants - get to exalted once and then you were done farming that rep forever. Most serious raiders finished this in the first month or so and never had to do those things again.

Lower raid difficulties - most people only did these early on. There were a few random trinkets people would want from 10M heroic over 25N (while working on 25H) but even in a serious guild these runs were optional since it did not make a big difference at all.

5 mans - badge gear was useful early on, not something you needed to farm the entire expac

The 5 man dungeons added later in expac had nice gear for alts or more casual players but if you had been raiding at a high level you had no use for the gear so no need to farm it.

Argent Tournament was a long grind to get everything, but it was all vanity items. I had no life back then so I got literally everything but I would be at no PvE disadvantage if I hadn't.

It's a good thing I don't really want to raid seriously right now, because I'd literally have no time to optimize my character for the level of play I personally enjoy. I'm caught up on gear enough to basically jump right into normal NH after a couple of weeks at 110 (just from being carried along in M+ from raider friends still stuck farming and they threw all the unwanted gear at me) but I'd never be able to catch up on AP, nor do I have the time for that grind. So I'll eventually tag along on alt runs but no way am I joining a guild to progress through normal & heroic with lots of wipes because I know I'd get too frustrated having to wipe on content due to other people that is easy to me.

The last raid I did at that level was Dragon Soul and the way we farmed LFR funneling gear to certain people (because of the power of 4PC set bonuses that were so strong they were worth using over higher ilvl non set gear) was probably the beginning of the dreaded "split raid." Even then, most of us didn't have a bunch of raid geared alts (which I hear is required in many top guilds now, but at the time there wasn't that expectation) so there was a limit to how far we could go with that.

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah, and then they disable flying, good move.

Under the auspices of "choice". The same philosophy. Youre forced to fly so we removed flying. Forced to grind valor so severly neutered and then removed the option completelty. Look even if you want to argue in practice you had no choice, in principle you did. The developers removing those systems left you with no choice in principle.

[Shiivey]

I have a hot tip, just don't be stupid about playing a game so you don't get burned.