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  1. #21
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    54 traits are absolutely needed to make the dps check for any boss beyond trilliax. Pretty much every boss after Trilliax is actually a dps check, once u have all you need from the 1st 3 bosses and farming trash, the only way up is with wep traits...
    So what about all these guilds with 54 traits still failing at 3+? Just bad players?

  2. #22
    Guess you're just not mythic enough to complete the content, or you know, need to spend some weeks getting better gear from heroic. Just because you saw another guild kill it in a video doesn't entitle you to kill it no matter how much your parents told you that you're special and nothing will slow you down.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    54 traits are absolutely needed to make the dps check for any boss beyond trilliax. Pretty much every boss after Trilliax is actually a dps check, once u have all you need from the 1st 3 bosses and farming trash, the only way up is with wep traits...
    no they arent absolutely needed, stop excusing incompetent players for their inability to dps and do mechanics at the same time

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral kushlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Where did you get that info?
    What is wowprogress ?

    Made by dubbelbasse

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Currently, there are over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic in the Nighthold which is quite a problem.

    It is almost statistically impossible to kill any of the 7 remaining bosses without a majority of the raid having 54 artifact traits.

    Do you see this as a big problem?
    I think alot of guilds are going Krosus, which is a massive mistake imo unless you are 100% confident in your output. If you go botanist/spellblade (also somewhat hard enrage), I am confident you will take it down no problem.

    The 3 first are really not hard, and while the next are a step up in difficult - they does not appear to be brutally tuned apart from Star/Eli/Gul'dan.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral kushlol's Avatar
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    The raid is passively nerfed by people getting more gear each week and at some point they will hotfix nerf more of the bosses like they usually do. Bosses like Star augur though even with the nerf its already had is still very tightly tuned on top of having to be flawless with mechanics or insta raid wipe.

    Made by dubbelbasse

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    So what about all these guilds with 54 traits still failing at 3+? Just bad players?
    You're making that up, theres not a single 3/10 guild with a full 54 trait roster.

  8. #28
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    I wonder how much shit people like that OP eat for breakfast

  9. #29
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kushlol View Post
    What is wowprogress ?
    Did you look at what wowprogress has to say? WoWprogress shows significantly different info. Wowprogress show ~57 guilds at 3/10M Nighthold. Wowprogress shows 548 guilds with progress beyond 3/10M nighthold.

    So, I ask the OP again, where did he get his info. Or am I reading wowprogress wrong?

    https://www.wowprogress.com/

    Edit:
    Changed 3/3 to 3/10
    Last edited by callipygoustp; 2017-02-24 at 07:24 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Did you look at what wowprogress has to say? WoWprogress shows significantly different info. Wowprogress show ~57 guilds at 3/3M Nighthold. Wowprogress shows 548 guilds with progress beyond 3/3M nighthold.

    So, I ask the OP again, where did he get his info. Or am I reading wowprogress wrong?

    https://www.wowprogress.com/
    Yes, you are.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Yes, you are.
    How so?
    {10char}

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    It obviously is a problem. This is mmo champion though, blizzard does no wrong...
    Why is this a problem though, this content is not made for the majority to be done in a month or so. It should be designed to last untill the next raid is close to release. Also don't forget that a large portion of raiders will only hit 54 the coming weeks, take for example the MrRobot prediction that predicted before Legion release that players that would get a moderate amount of AP (no crazy M+ farming) would get 54 +- 6 months after release, this point is somewhere in the next to weeks.

    Then again, even the community is mixed on these bosses being tuned for 54 or not, a large portion of the community seems to think that the balance is around 45 traits for the first 3 on Mythic, then +-50 for Spellblade, Tich, Botanist and 54 for Auger, Elisande and Guldan. With Krosus being the outlier that some ppl put in the 54 group and some in the 50 group.

    Not to argue that the group of bosses after the first 3 are a serious step up in difficulty, but there is no consensus nor factual proof that this only has to do with 54 traits and that gear and skill don't factor in.

  13. #33
    Ok heres the tuning target--- bosses get easier week by week with gear (to a substantial sense) and AP was meant as a mechanism to help accomplish that as well. Blizzard failed royally this xpac, they underestimated m+farmers in EN where everyone went in barely getting upgrades from Mythic and steamrolling the bosses, to overtuning it to compensate the next two raids. Generally speaking, any old raiding guild with enough time should be able to clear all the content, however as it stands, there are players who will NEVER be good enough to kill Mythic Guldan with the current gear.

  14. #34
    The 4th boss (bridge dude, forgot his name) requires the raid to have average 600k single target dps, including healers and tanks. So, it is more like a gear and skill issue in general rather than a purely trait issue.

    Most mythic capable guilds should have their roster average over 45 traits anyway. Unless a guild constantly wipe under 3-4%, 10 points of artifacts aren't going to help them much.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    I'm fine and happy with bosses taking over 75 wipes to kill, but the 4th boss of a raid taking over a month for 2000 mythic guilds is a huge error on blizzards front.
    You need to understand, of those 2000 guilds, a lot of them would have died, because they'd be 7/7M guilds who aren't good enough to do real content. And also apart of the 2000 are the alive guilds, still deluding themselves that they're real mythic raiders, one of which is on my realm. They won't kill a 4th boss ever unless they severely severely overgear it, because they are not good enough.

    EN caused an inflation of guilds, so many players became "mythic raiders" because EN was so easy, now all those "Mythic raiders" are on to a real fight, and they're stuck because they are actually heroic raiders in ability.

    Also, most of those 2000 guilds would have come across the 4th boss within the last 2-3 weeks, 2 night a week raiding guilds would only be hitting their 75~ wipes this or next week even if they hit it 2 weeks ago.

    Honestly man, this is just where the overflow of bad guilds are going to get stuck, it's normal considering what EN did to the raiding scene. How can't you understand that?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by coblade14 View Post
    The 4th boss (bridge dude, forgot his name) requires the raid to have average 600k single target dps, including healers and tanks. So, it is more like a gear issue in general rather than a purely trait issue.

    Most mythic capable guilds should have their roster average over 45 traits anyway. Unless a guild constantly wipe under 3-4%, 10 points of artifacts aren't going to help them much.
    You worded that poorly, the dps are required to have 600k dps, and the tanks and healers as a combined unit need to also have about 600k, which they easily manage usually just off the tanks.

    And in reality isn't it a 590k dps requirement?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Username4242 View Post
    I mean, that's a useless number without also knowing how many guilds are raiding in the first place, and how many of those 2,000 guilds have people short on artifact traits.
    Around 1% of guilds are > 3/10(M) ... sounds like Mythic is living up to its name. Sounds awesome.
    Approximately 40000 guilds have killed at least 1 boss in normal in NH.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    How so?
    Mythic Nighthold from WoWProgress:

    Skorpyron .............. 5074 (9.35%)
    Chronomatic Anomaly .... 3494 (6.44%)
    Trilliax ............... 3079 (5.67%)
    Krosus ................. 1015 (1.87%)
    Spellblade Aluriel ...... 632 (1.16%)
    High Botanist Tel'arn ... 433 (0.80%)
    Tichondrius ............. 316 (0.58%)
    Star Augur Etraeus ....... 96 (0.18%)
    Grand Magistrix Elisande . 46 (0.08%)
    Gul'dan .................. 16 (0.03%)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    You're making that up, theres not a single 3/10 guild with a full 54 trait roster.
    A guild with average 50+ traits isn't so different from a guild with full 54 points. Only less than 2% difference. Unless a guild is constantly wiping at 1%, the difference won't be noticeable.

    50+ is quite easy to achieve if you do your dailies, a few runs (under 5) of mythic+ per week, and attend raid. Most people in my guild's mythic roster have over 50 levels, and we are 3/10M 2 resets ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    You worded that poorly, the dps are required to have 600k dps, and the tanks and healers as a combined unit need to also have about 600k, which they easily manage usually just off the tanks.

    And in reality isn't it a 590k dps requirement?
    I'm honestly not quite sure lol. I just remember it being around 600k per person, which is a nice round number to memorize.

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siniwelho View Post
    Mythic Nighthold from WoWProgress:

    Skorpyron .............. 5074 (9.35%)
    Chronomatic Anomaly .... 3494 (6.44%)
    Trilliax ............... 3079 (5.67%)
    Krosus ................. 1015 (1.87%)
    Spellblade Aluriel ...... 632 (1.16%)
    High Botanist Tel'arn ... 433 (0.80%)
    Tichondrius ............. 316 (0.58%)
    Star Augur Etraeus ....... 96 (0.18%)
    Grand Magistrix Elisande . 46 (0.08%)
    Gul'dan .................. 16 (0.03%)
    Those percentages don't answer my question. That few people are at the top of progression I am not curious about. I'm wondering where he saw 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10M. THAT is what I am not seeing. What I am seeing is ~59 guild at 3/10M thats a far cry from 2000. Looking at the guilds in the top 500 the spread looks pretty standard.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral kushlol's Avatar
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    Guilds aren't progressing further mostly due to lack of player skill you don't just hit 54 traits and bosses start falling over you actually have to do good dps on the later bosses while executing the mechanics. Vantus runes also supplement the lack of a few traits. So if a guild full of people with like 48 traits and they are using vantus runes can't kill a boss it isn't due to lack of traits or it being "overtuned" it's simply due to performance.

    Made by dubbelbasse

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