Has WoW's decline driven you back to some old favorites?

[hulkgor]

I never understood the die-hard wow attitude.

I love WoW, been playing it since the early betas, but i regularly take breaks, venture into other games\genres, have a great time, then return\get more active on WoW again.

People make it seem that if you play WoW, you can't play or enjoy anything else. Until you think it's "DEAD!", start hating and bashing it, with outcries of decline, and outrage at blizzard... and then you remember other games exist. That's odd.

Just recently enjoyed the recent expansions on SWTOR (kotfe, kotet), dabbled into EVE's new f2p system, and am eager to check Wildstar Primal Matrix content in the coming months. Also hyped as fuck for the mega expansion on Path of Exile!

[Deleted]

I played a bit of Vanilla WoW, but I stopped really playing WoW a long time ago. But since WoW is bascially F2P I keep it running and get some passive Gold.

[SirCowdog]

Thing is Ex-Blizzard devs tried that before and we got Wildstar. Look how that turned out. I'll give Pardo the benefit of the doubt and that's it.

Wildstar isn't actually a bad game at all. It just had an awful launch and a terrible RNG system at its end-game. Funny how WoW is now moving towards terrible RNG systems, but is still popular?

The problem is trying to compete with the Juggernaut of WoW. They've got more money, more dedicated and invested players, and more popularity than anyone else trying to enter the genre. WoW has had more time to polish the gameplay, and any new game that tries to compete will inevitably be compared to over a decade of refinement and establishment. Even titles with similar fan-followings have struggled with that: SWTOR, ESO, and even Final Fantasy barely made it, much less an entirely new IP like Wildstar.

In a lot of ways I really appreciate how WoW has taken the genre forward, but it's at the point now where WoW is stifling progress. As long as WoW exists there's almost no room for any new MMOs. Competition breeds excellence, and right now there really isn't any.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Passive aggressive title... then "bragging" about a long since dead game...

I'm honestly not sure if this is a serious post or not...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He means that objectively sub numbers and player activity (since they pulled sub statistics) have been declining for years even from WoD levels. I'm sure there are still some players who enjoy grinding maw of souls though.



Delusional.

Personally I still play Diablo 3 although that game has just as many flaws, and I've revisited modded skyrim.

in what way is it delusional? the quality of the content is almost on par with mop. i see no lack of people when ever i'm doing any thing world quest pvp group finder lfr. there is no magical decline wow is doing fine. only reason i'm not playing all the time it is cause the person i want to play with is busy.

[SirCowdog]

Same. That being said, I have been dusting off some old favorites like the Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect series whenever my internet decides to crap out (thanks, Comcast!).

I recently went through the Enhanced Edition of all the Baldur's Gate games. Pretty fun. Played Icewind Dale 1 just fine too, but IWD2 isn't enhanced, and you have to play it using the GoG version with some mods. It's clunky as hell and not very fun. Went on to try the Neverwinter games(not the MMO which is trash), and hoooooly crap are they bad.

Have you tried the newer games in that style? Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny? And I guess Pillars is getting a 2nd game. Already kickstarted with waaaay over their asking amount.

[Nayami]

Yeah man I'm back to playing Runescape now Kappa

[Florida Man]

"Wow's decline," eh? You should work for buzz feed.

[-Joker-]

Decline seems harsh. New state of being seems more accurate. While some believe the game is going to hell in a handbasket (*cough* WoD *cough*), others, like myself, are of the opinion that while WoW is making design changes, they are, for the most part, for the better.

As to your actual question, regardless of WoW's state, I will always gravitate back to classics like the original Diablo, or Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscura.

[Queen of Hamsters]

WoW still gives me everything I want and more, including community, long-term character progression and FUN. There's no "decline", it dipped during WoD for very tangible reasons and Legion picked up the ball with flying colors.

WoW in its current state encourages people to go out into the world and group up more than any other iteration before it. I know that people placing their personal happiness in WOW performing poorly were desperate to paint Legion in a light of "It's just a breath of fresh air after WoD, the world will soon be empty and dead again" but so far that hasn't come true..

[Thage]

I recently went through the Enhanced Edition of all the Baldur's Gate games. Pretty fun. Played Icewind Dale 1 just fine too, but IWD2 isn't enhanced, and you have to play it using the GoG version with some mods. It's clunky as hell and not very fun. Went on to try the Neverwinter games(not the MMO which is trash), and hoooooly crap are they bad.

Have you tried the newer games in that style? Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny? And I guess Pillars is getting a 2nd game. Already kickstarted with waaaay over their asking amount.

I liked Neverwinter Nights 1, but NWN2 was a buggy shitpile even back in the day. I did try Pillars of Eternity. Didn't really like it; the gameplay is fun and the character creator is neat, and I really liked the portrait options, but the environment design was Generic Gloomy Place #1335 and the NPCs you could recruit were all... I pretty much kicked everyone out because I couldn't s t a n d the NPCs (unlike the BG and Planescape games, where I often have trouble picking favorites) and brought on a group of created adventurers, which led for some very quiet dungeons. And when the meat and potatoes of an Infinity Engine RPG don't inspire me, there's not much point in improving my numbers until I can overcome the enemy's numbers. I do wish they'd do Enhanced Editions of Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale II, and Neverwinter Nights (and its expansions), myself.

[Kokolums]

Thing is Ex-Blizzard devs tried that before and we got Wildstar. Look how that turned out. I'll give Pardo the benefit of the doubt and that's it.

Wildstar is just another anti-social MMO. The devs who built Wildstar misunderstood the appeal of Vanilla WoW. They thought people liked vanilla WoW because it was more difficult than modern WoW. So they made a more difficult game but then added the antisocial elements like the automatic match making system. I took one look at Wildstar's design and ran away. I knew that was a failure from the start.

To make a successful MMO, it requires a strong in-game community. Wildstar doesn't have that. Its plug n play instead.

I STILL see people attack Vanilla WoW by listing the issues with class design,raid design, quest design, etc. They are TOTALLY missing the point. Those are problems to be sure. But the fact that vanilla Wow is actually SOCIAL completely overrides all of those issues.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Wildstar is just another anti-social MMO. The devs who built Wildstar misunderstood the appeal of Vanilla WoW. They thought people liked vanilla WoW because it was more difficult than modern WoW. So they made a more difficult game but then added the antisocial elements like the automatic match making system. I took one look at Wildstar's design and ran away. I knew that was a failure from the start.

To make a successful MMO, it requires a strong in-game community. Wildstar doesn't have that. Its plug n play instead.

I STILL see people attack Vanilla WoW by listing the issues with class design,raid design, quest design, etc. They are TOTALLY missing the point. Those are problems to be sure. But the fact that vanilla Wow is actually SOCIAL completely overrides all of those issues.

thats not really true. guild wars 2 has a great way to build a strong in-game community and it did. but its not really "successful" atlest not any where near wows lvls.

[SirCowdog]

I liked Neverwinter Nights 1, but NWN2 was a buggy shitpile even back in the day. I did try Pillars of Eternity. Didn't really like it; the gameplay is fun and the character creator is neat, and I really liked the portrait options, but the environment design was Generic Gloomy Place #1335 and the NPCs you could recruit were all... I pretty much kicked everyone out because I couldn't s t a n d the NPCs (unlike the BG and Planescape games, where I often have trouble picking favorites) and brought on a group of created adventurers, which led for some very quiet dungeons. And when the meat and potatoes of an Infinity Engine RPG don't inspire me, there's not much point in improving my numbers until I can overcome the enemy's numbers. I do wish they'd do Enhanced Editions of Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale II, and Neverwinter Nights (and its expansions), myself.

There's a "spiritual successor" to Planescape called "Torment: Tides of Numenera". Just released recently and I haven't tried it yet. I'm a little skeptical of it thought.

But yeah, I feel you on the character development. Characters in Planescape were especially well-written, and the entire story of Baldur's Gate was pretty damn good too. Pillars just didn't have that.

-------------------------

But to get back on topic: I don't really feel like any of the older MMORPGs hold up very well. I fired up EQ2 the other day and it just looks like lukewarm watery garbage. Tried both Champion's Online and DCUO to see if they'd improved at all since their launches....both are still a resounding 'Meh'. Played LotRo for maybe 10 minutes before uninstalling out of pure boredom.

Wildstar is still Wildstar, and I guess they're getting a new end-game progression system soon. I'm curious to see how it'll effect the longevity of the end-game. Because as it stands right now, as good as Wildstar's combat mechanics are, the content is just uninspired outside of dungeons. And dungeons for some reason just aren't fun. You either swat team that shit with perfect execution or spend 2 hours fumbling around and failing.

So rather than wallow around in older games, I started branching out and trying new ones.

I've been meaning to give GW2's expansion a try, but just haven't gotten around to it. Same with SWTOR(which I hear has a LOT of solo gameplay). I think it's basically turned into KotoR 3 at this point.

Finally tried Black Desert Online. It's actually not bad at all(although lacking any kind of instanced dungeons like we're used to with WoW). It actually almost feels more like Diablo or Dynasty Warriors to me. Kill lots of enemies at once, and the occasional boss that you have to dodge out of the way of attacks. And it didn't feel nearly as grindy as I was lead to believe, unless you completely ignore quests and the economy and JUST kill things.

Blade & Soul is all about that T&A. The combat is flashy, but really isn't very good. TERA, GW2, and Wildstar all do combat better. I can't recommend it.

I fell like I could keep going on this topic forever. There are a LOT of mediocre MMORPGs out there. And it's like I said before: The main problem is how dominant WoW still is. There's no room for anyone else to really compete, and all we get are a lot of WoW clones. It's not necessarily that the MMORPG genre is dying or getting old. It's just that WoW has basically been too big for too long that it's stifling progress.

[MuLLvaD3n]

I stopped down from wow not because I did not like the content of the game but because I can't play as much as I need when it comes to a bit of progression and not letting the team down. I like that Blizzard has implemented content into the game, even if it does not fit my life right now.

As to the question to what games I've dusted of I just started playing Counter Strike Global Offensive. I played a lot of 1.6 before my time in Wow so even if this is a new game it's still counter strike.

[MoanaLisa]

Wildstar is just another anti-social MMO. The devs who built Wildstar misunderstood the appeal of Vanilla WoW. They thought people liked vanilla WoW because it was more difficult than modern WoW. So they made a more difficult game but then added the antisocial elements like the automatic match making system. I took one look at Wildstar's design and ran away. I knew that was a failure from the start.

Well, given the huge pile of "WoW's too easy" threads and posts it's understandable. Even if it was catastrophically wrong. Good case of developers with confirmation bias destroying a product before it ever had a chance to settle in.

[TheWorkingTitle]

I've always been a one-game guy, investing my gaming time into WoW. There has been a few expections, like the lulls at the end of WoTLK, Cata, MoP, WoD, and right now before 7.2

All I have in WoW to do currently is target a few bosses in NH for specific drops, do a 15 or higher Mythic+ for the weekly chest, and farm gold. So in the mean time, I've been playing GTA V Online with friends, Witcher 3 on deathmarch, Hearthstone Wild, ESO: Skyrim Special Edition, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and SOMA.

It's nice having options, but eventually I'll go back to just playing WoW once 7.2 drops.

[Taeldorian]

I personally think legion is really good. So no

[McNeil]

I play some good old WC3 from time to time, but other then that I barely have time left to play other games. I wonder why it is so surprising to a lot of people what the OP meant about WoW's ''decline'', while its obviously losing quite some subs. The game's quality is a different story, but apparently it doesn't appeal enough to the casual player.

[SirCowdog]

Well, given the huge pile of "WoW's too easy" threads and posts it's understandable. Even if it was catastrophically wrong. Good case of developers with confirmation bias destroying a product before it ever had a chance to settle in.

It wasn't necessarily the difficulty of Wildstar that undercut its success. That wasn't really all that bad outside of the fact that there was only a single difficulty for each raid. What really screwed Wildstar was the execution and the functionality. The game suffered from performance problems across the board, and inexcusably bad class balance. Heralding back to the days of Vanilla WoW where if you did not play the right class with the right spec, you didn't get to raid.

Not sure if that was by design or not, but if it was, then you're absolutely right that confirmation bias wrecked things. But I think it was mostly just a rushed launch followed by a lack of funding and slow dev response to glaring issues.