Outlaw vs. Sub

[Blayke]

And please don't say "Assassination". I know sin is tops right now, but I have way too much time and ap invested in my outlaw and sub artifacts, and the thought of levelling another arti just sickens me.

So with that out of the way, I've seen two things that seem to be contradicting each other:

http://simulationcraft.org/reports/R...Legendary.html

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist.../#difficulty=4

So the sims say Outlaw is on top, and the logs say it's close to the bottom. I admit i'm not really good at reading this stuff, but even I know that logs are a more reliable source of data than sims.

Like a lot of people I started off as Outlaw when it seemed like it would be THE THING. Then when it got the nerfbat almost right away I went with sub cuz that's what I was in WoD. Right now my sin arti is at 52 and Outlaw is at 44.

So should I get Outlaw maxed out or just stick with sub? Any other resources I can check out? I was kind of hoping I could max out outlaw in the hopes it would be best for both ST and aoe, but now i'm not so sure. I'm so sick of grinding ap i'd really like to pick the right one and stick with it.

As always, thanks for any and all help.

[Halobob87]

If u have greesnkin/ shoulders, play Outlaw. If not, stay sub. But if u don't have decent legs for sub/ outlaw, there are little to no reason for not switch to assa, couse even with a 35 weapon, you will still do more damage then Out or Sub without their bis legs.

[Blayke]

If u have greesnkin/ shoulders, play Outlaw. If not, stay sub. But if u don't have decent legs for sub/ outlaw, there are little to no reason for not switch to assa, couse even with a 35 weapon, you will still do more damage then Out or Sub without their bis legs.

thanks for the reply.

At the moment I have the Ring and the Sub bracers, no outlaw legs. Have changed my loot spec to outlaw in the hopes of getting a decent outlaw leg, but now i'm wondering if its even worth it.

[elfporn]

thanks for the reply.

At the moment I have the Ring and the Sub bracers, no outlaw legs. Have changed my loot spec to outlaw in the hopes of getting a decent outlaw leg, but now i'm wondering if its even worth it.

bracers/shoulders are bis for sub. So i would recommend sticking with sub and hope for shoulders/cloak as next legendary

[Deleted]

What are you asking specifically? Do you want to use Outlaw in general, or just for m+?

Sub is harder to play, and honestly doesn't reward much (Kinda like Feral druid), while Outlaw has huge moments of power that feel absolutely great.

I play both specs, and while I do enjoy Sub, it does get old rather fast to put in 2x effort to my rotation and get same numbers - Wears me down, and I quickly end up switching back to Outlaw. Outlaw is very consistent on AoE, especially if you have the ring (and gloves, but since those are Otl specific, I'd guess there's a greater chance your have the ring).

Both specs are fun, but Outlaw requires a lot less thinking, which leaves room for other things.

[elfporn]

Both specs are fun, but Outlaw requires a lot less thinking, which leaves room for other things.

Like eating and masturbating!

[Deleted]

Like eating and masturbating!

Like doing mechanics, coordinating the pulls and chatting with the mates you're running with, is what I was thinking of, but yea, also eating :P

How would you masturbate while doing content? Frankly, while I love being top on the meter, it doesn't arouse me ^^

[elfporn]

Like doing mechanics, coordinating the pulls and chatting with the mates you're running with, is what I was thinking of, but yea, also eating :P

How would you masturbate while doing content? Frankly, while I love being top on the meter, it doesn't arouse me ^^

depends on the content you're doign of course.

[Deleted]

depends on the content you're doign of course.

I'll try the WQ-masturbation tomorrow, thanks for making me think outside the box!

[Deleted]

Hey, m8.

I main Kliklake - Oulaw double BIS leggy's - up until NH-Mithic content where i rolled Assa 3e and 4the leggy, because Sub is just 2 much of a hassle 4 me. (And the 4 times shadowstrike is stil RNG dependent.) --- i lookedin 2 goin sub, but running from RNG right in 2 RNG, is just plain stupid, and guildy's, leggy's and logs tel me 2 go Assa.

The reason 4 this change is that since 7.2 they nerfed my wrists, and even the slightest of rng mis, i wil end up with the lowest single targed dps of the entire dps team.
From 7.2 on, there is no space 4 bad rng, or 4 any mistake.

Let alone the krokus fight where you have serious downtime on the boss while soaking the pitches.

Usually i go 2 the logs, you know, warcraftlogs, and just look there what's happening.

I could never, ever, ever, ever, ever, etc,... get in 2 the top 100 charts, not even when i had double 6 roll or even TRIPPLE in 1 bos fight. ( And 2 b fair, when a fight gets tense i make mistakes, im human)

I would 2 beat my self, siming my dps, doing all things optimal, and sometimes - sometimes i would reach or over pass my simed dps on the targed dummy, and i would b happy like a kid on the forth of Juli.

This is what symcraft tels me:
Sample Data Kliklake Damage Per Second
Count 9992
Mean 711910.69
Minimum 512719.80
Maximum 1102143.52
Spread ( max - min ) 589423.72
Range [ ( max - min ) / 2 * 100% ] 41.40%
Standard Deviation 65849.4473
5th Percentile 617578.29
95th Percentile 830337.46
( 95th Percentile - 5th Percentile ) 212759.18


Wile in Raid i would usually b hanging around the 600K dps, witch is not high enough becouse we need/ want 618K DPS on every dd' on krokus 2 down him.
But simcraft said you should b doing 711K dps, you are doing it wrong, i can feel the trolls looking at my logs splitting it out telling me im shait, and then wat more,...

It's as simple as that the deviation btween max dps and min dps is more than the dps i was making so i just gave up.

I rolled assa,
This is wat simcraft tels me now:
Sample Data Kliklake Damage Per Second
Count 9992
Mean 606435.98
Minimum 533503.21
Maximum 683690.55
Spread ( max - min ) 150187.34
Range [ ( max - min ) / 2 * 100% ] 12.38%
Standard Deviation 18932.0803
5th Percentile 576166.39
95th Percentile 637971.00
( 95th Percentile - 5th Percentile ) 61804.62

And you know what if fucking happy i dont reach my 618K dps, but i do the 606dps it tels me i shoud be reaching, and when i make a mistake it wil ptu me around 585dps, and when i dont feel like im make mistakes i'tl get me at around 610 ish, but the difference is now, i have something 2 word at, learn the specc, feel the specc, and get 2 that 80th - 90th percentile.


Playing the game cause i like it, and Assa made me like my Rogue agen, making openers that can compete with frkn DH, and hanging around the 3-4 spot on the dps meter 4 50% of the fight, instead of hovering at the 14-15th spot.

So i dont know, if someone has som Outlaw magic 2 share, i would love 2 hear it, but dont think, it can compete in raid.

When talking bout M+, at 15+ im not good enough with Assa, so i stil do Outlaw, and i do shine in m+!!! God o God, roughly on every pull all you'r CD's wil have refreshed, TB is awsome, and getting a 6roll on a boss makes me dominate the entire m+! and if not top dps, on the m+, you are just so usefull, in all cc'ways, that it dose not matter. Trickoftrade is so OP wen it comes 2 skittish, and those are the sweet spots, Outlaw needs.

Thx 4 the read/thred, and sry i cant help you with sub.

[Xvolte]

my head hurts.....

[Deleted]

1m0 h3 d035nt h4v3 3n0ugh numb3r5 1n h15 w411 0f t3xt

best regards,

krokus

[elfporn]

@kliklake your sub information is out of date. The 4 SS rule isnt a "thing" anymore...its nice and possible, but not a loss to miss it. Sub is actually the least dependent on rngeezus atm too. Energetic stabbing, shadow tech and the 4p, plus any trinkets is about the limit.

Youre right that ass can be higher when tunneling though. Variance from poison bomb and bota will still affect dps, but not nearly as much as outlaw.

[Deleted]

If you can eat while playing Outlaw, I think you're doing something wrong