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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    And who uses "Heal", seriously? It's our worst healing spell, even if you combined legendary Bracers and Elisande trinket.
    Aspartaami uses "Heal", and he knows his stuff better than the vast majority of players, and is in a top 200 world guild.

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    Anyway it's not our worst heal Prayer of Healing I think takes that place easily. Heal is your light damage heal, you should be using it every time there is light damage.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post

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    Anyway it's not our worst heal Prayer of Healing I think takes that place easily. Heal is your light damage heal, you should be using it every time there is light damage.
    I have to disagree. Prayer of healing can be very strong provided it's used correctly. If there is light to minimal damage I'd rather spam smite to be more mana efficient and let the other healer's top up the raid. Using Heal feels too comp dependent. I play with a resto druid so during any down time I'd be wasting my time casting Heal to top up.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethris View Post
    Do you enjoy when "requires you to be losing" is a key feature of your class?
    ... and this is why I will always remember a quote by someone on this forum concerning S2M: Everyone wants a unique and interesting play mechanic until they get one.

    No one will truly be happy until all specs are the same but with different spell effects.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Smashley View Post
    ... and this is why I will always remember a quote by someone on this forum concerning S2M: Everyone wants a unique and interesting play mechanic until they get one.

    No one will truly be happy until all specs are the same but with different spell effects.
    the ability in question was optional until this xpac. this is why it may seam that more people are concerned about it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post
    Really? I guess you like spending consumables to rebuff every fight? I guess you like spending repair bills that no one else has to pay for. It's the same reason hunters don't have to buy arrows and bullets anymore.

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    I think if you're going OOM you either don't have good enough gear yet or your not using heal enough.
    Do you never do progression fights? DPS generally take lots of dmg til they learn the fight. In the mean time it's gonna be mana intensive.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea3 View Post
    Do you never do progression fights? DPS generally take lots of dmg til they learn the fight. In the mean time it's gonna be mana intensive.
    I never have needed to killed my self on purpose to down a boss. Though I did die on just before we downed Heroic Gul'dan first time, but that was me screwing up and forgeting to grab a soul, not because I was oom. If I did purposly kill myself only .01% of the population would think that was a good thing. The rest would say learn mechanincs. You still shouldn't be going OOM, i'd look at your over healing before I worried about killing myself for 20 seconds of free mana healz.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Smashley View Post
    ... and this is why I will always remember a quote by someone on this forum concerning S2M: Everyone wants a unique and interesting play mechanic until they get one.
    It's a mechanic nobody asked for; it's impossible to balance around, and clunky to play with. "Requires you to be losing" or "Results in you losing" are terrible gameplay mechanics in most games, especially multiplayer games, because they are binary effects. I know you just want to complain and make bullshit snarky comments, but let me tell you why you're wrong.

    Four possible outcomes as a result of using a "Death Matters" Ability.

    I didn't use it and we still won
    I used it and we won
    I didn't use it and we lost
    I used it and we still lost

    When you use the ability and you win, then it's possible that you won out of a direct use of the ability.
    But in every other situation, the ability was not directly responsible for the victory or loss. If you didn't use it and still won, it didn't matter. If you used it (or didn't) and still lost, then it didn't matter. The design flaws of something like Surrender to Madness and Holy Spirit are in the fact that you have to center your gameplay around the inevitability of dying in every encounter to use them to their fullest extent; which is something that no other class ever has to do. Did you pop S2M too early and now you're dead when a couple million damage could have helped kill the boss? Are other healers healing you when you're trying to kill yourself to proc Holy Spirit? Furthermore, if you're dying and having an opportunity to use Holy Spirit, it's more than likely the raid is wiping anyway and this isn't going to matter. These are bad design choices, and I'll take better and more consistent throughput over stupidly implemented flavor any day. The one time your piddly beyond-the-grave heals are going to make any difference at all may have been avoided in the first place if your class had proper design and wasn't built around the prospect of having to die to use an ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashley View Post
    No one will truly be happy until all specs are the same but with different spell effects.
    This is a strawman. I like the playstyle of the priest. I don't like killing my character to use abilities to their fullest extent.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethris View Post
    It's a mechanic nobody asked for; it's impossible to balance around, and clunky to play with. "Requires you to be losing" or "Results in you losing" are terrible gameplay mechanics in most games, especially multiplayer games, because they are binary effects. I know you just want to complain and make bullshit snarky comments, but let me tell you why you're wrong.

    Four possible outcomes as a result of using a "Death Matters" Ability.

    I didn't use it and we still won
    I used it and we won
    I didn't use it and we lost
    I used it and we still lost

    When you use the ability and you win, then it's possible that you won out of a direct use of the ability.
    But in every other situation, the ability was not directly responsible for the victory or loss. If you didn't use it and still won, it didn't matter. If you used it (or didn't) and still lost, then it didn't matter.
    This could be said about literally any ability.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekt View Post
    This could be said about literally any ability.
    This is true, and I was expecting someone to say this.

    The difference, however, is that abilities that kill you prevent you from taking additional actions after you use them. This means that you have to plan every encounter around which time is best for you to die.

    Additionally, you can beat a boss ideally without ever having to use Holy Spirit. Can you say the same of a Holy Word? Or Prayer of Healing? Holy Spirit is a textbook "Win-More" ability; because it does nothing unless you're already winning the encounter, and does not help much even when you're losing.

    Surrender to Madness is more useful, in the sense that it isn't "Win-More," but it does require you to play around the ability exclusively, and the only skill involved is your timing window for the ability. S2M can help your raid kill the boss, but it also removes you from the encounter after it expires. At some point your raid will be geared enough to the point where the extra damage from S2M won't matter and it becomes detrimental to use an ability like this.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethris View Post
    Additionally, you can beat a boss ideally without ever having to use Holy Spirit. Can you say the same of a Holy Word? Or Prayer of Healing? Holy Spirit is a textbook "Win-More" ability; because it does nothing unless you're already winning the encounter, and does not help much even when you're losing.
    Replace Holy Spirit by Leytorrent, prepot, Rune, Versa Rune, Unique race skill, your sentence is still true. They aren't mandatory. No one will blame you for not using them on farm. But for first down, they could make the difference. So does Holy Spirit.

    What is so unique ?

  11. #31
    Spirit of Redemption is unique flavor the spec has had for a decade. It's a pretty identifying ability, but it's not like our mana and output is balanced around the free casting we gain from dying (whereas Shadow is balanced around StM). So what's the big deal, then? Why does any of this matter? It's a neat bonus we get that we can take advantage of under certain circumstances (or with the cloak).
    Last edited by Bekt; 2017-03-21 at 04:06 AM.

  12. #32
    I try sacrifice myself frequently in pugs but usuaully get topped up by other healers. Really frustrating since you can do a lot during SoR, especially when talented into the extra duration.

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