Looking to get more competitive.

[Rusken]

Hi guys, I've just finished playing my placement matches for this season, and listening to people on voice chat complain about what heroes other people are playing, or bitch how bad the team is while not offering any sort of alternatives is pretty exhausting. But it also got me wanting to research some of this stuff so I'm not un-knowingly holding my team back while I'm just trying to do my best.

I'm wondering if there's a good resource for advanced Overwatch info that will help me understand why people hate me playing Hanzo or why they ask for Mercy over Lucio. Which defense/offense heroes work best for which maps? I knew of Overpwn a while ago but it seems they've shut down and it just redirects to these forums.

Thanks for any help!

[Valorfar]

Watching Twitch streams helped me understand the game more especially what comps work and which characters complement one another. Watching good players on streams really helps.

A lot of people don't like it when someone plays Hanzo but if a player is great with that character then it can really help.

People will be asking for a Lucio or Mercy because no one is playing support and you have too many tanks/dps?

[JoshuaNLG]

The reason for Mercy over Lucio is her targetted heals are a lot more proficient which can keep a more viable target alive during pushes, not to mention her Ult is incredibly game changing if used correctly, as for Hanzo, there's just a stigma surrounding people who play him in the game, much like hunters in WoW.

[xero5141]

Check out the overwatchuniversity subreddit.

[Endus]

Really, it's better to ask specific questions; there's no repository of "everything you could ever want to know".

As for the questions you asked;

1> Why not Hanzo? Hanzo isn't that flexible a character. Because his shots have a travel time, he's not hugely effective at getting long-range picks, as a sniper. He can keep shooting in a general direction and hope someone walks in front of it, but that's about it. His utility is also a short-range visibility boost, which can be useful, but you need to be using it well AND your team needs to be set up to capitalize on it. This isn't to say a good Hanzo player isn't useful, but a good Hanzo is usually not hanging that far back, and they don't miss their headshots. It's a high skill cap hero, and 98.2% of players who pick him aren't at that level, so they drag the team down. He also doesn't provide AoE damage for breaking shields/massed pushes, nor is he hitscan for dealing with Pharah, and his Ultimate is relatively easy to avoid and has next to no chance of catching people off guard, given the loud wind-up. It generally just buys your team a few seconds of time.

2> Why Mercy over Lucio? Because Lucio has terrible healing. His ONLY advantage as a healer is that his heals are AoE, but they're abysmally slow. Even when he uses Amp it Up, it's slower than Mercy or Ana's direct healing on any one target. To add to this, his offense is primarily knocking enemies off cliffs or randomly shooting down hallways, since it's near-impossible to hit anyone at any range with Lucio. Also, Lucio's ultimate needs to be used pro-actively; if Reaper jumps into your team and ults, Lucio's ult is useless; by the time he gets it off, he and his team are dead and it doesn't go off. It also decays rapidly, so the window in which you need to fire it is narrow, and the enemy team can just wait 10 seconds for it to expire if you pop it before they commit. Zenyatta, by comparison, has slightly faster single-target heals, but brings a TON of direct offense, and his ultimate CAN be used reactively. Mercy has huge direct heals, can provide a pretty significant damage buff when NOT healing, to whichever hero is most advantageous, and her ultimate turns potential lost fights into wins, as long as she isn't the first to die. Lucio has uses, as a secondary healer, but you need the right kind of map and team to capitalize on it. If you've got a Widowmaker, Reaper, and/or Pharah (by way of example) who aren't sitting in your radius, you aren't healing very effectively.

[Jessicka]

At what level did you place? That would be useful to know. If you're down to Gold/Silver (where I am, so you're in good company!) then composition itself is slightly less critical. And Hanzo's ult can be devastating with a Zarya, since his ult cannot be blocked. You should always aim to combo it like this. That said, most any DPS is better; but no one will complain if you pick 76 or Pharah. Picking Sombra or Widow will likely draw as much ire as picking Hanzo though. I have totally seen the whole "Pls no Hanzo"... 4 minutes later "ANGRY JAPANESE" *TEAM KILL* happen though, much to my amusement having put positive head on and said 'give him a chance'. It was Attack Symmetra who ruined that match in the attack round that followed

It's good to have a Support on your list, and Lucio is alright at low levels as people are slack and won't go to health packs which means everyone is always going to be topped off. But, you do need to get your Amp and Ult timing right; not just hit them on cooldown. Better to go Mercy or Ana; it's more work, but it's totally worth it.

I'd also suggest picking up a tank, Reinhardt is always a solid choice, as are Zarya and D.Va; D.Vas are whining a lot at the moment, but she's not nearly as bad as people make out and I've not seen a single person complain in game about my choice. Orisa is also looking pretty decent. There's plenty of variety, so pick whoever works for you, they're all viable.

[Woobels]

I don't like the Mercy>Lucio comments, when I do placements I'll almost always ask for Lucio over anything else but maybe a competent Ana.

Lucio has a high skill ceiling but he's not super hard to make work at the average levels of play because often times fights are more prolonged due to slightly lacking mechanics which means his healing isn't quite as poor and sound barrier is very simple to use and actually often more impactful than res over the course a full match.

You're simply not going to be in range to be healing people all the time as Mercy because there's times where you simply should just be hiding for entire teamfights so you can res.

Also Hanzo is probably fine, I personally think he's much better on Attack than Defense though but ymmv.

[Ravex]

I don't like the Mercy>Lucio comments, when I do placements I'll almost always ask for Lucio over anything else but maybe a competent Ana.

Lucio has a high skill ceiling but he's not super hard to make work at the average levels of play because often times fights are more prolonged due to slightly lacking mechanics which means his healing isn't quite as poor and sound barrier is very simple to use and actually often more impactful than res over the course a full match.

You're simply not going to be in range to be healing people all the time as Mercy because there's times where you simply should just be hiding for entire teamfights so you can res.

Also Hanzo is probably fine, I personally think he's much better on Attack than Defense though but ymmv.

Care to elaborate on that?

He is the easiest character in the game to play imo.

[Woobels]

Care to elaborate on that?

He is the easiest character in the game to play imo.

Lucio in a competitive enviroment is way different, I'm fairly high ranked and it doesn't even happen there.

There's plenty of pro teams who are actually starting to look at players who are skilled at the hero and making roster changes because of it, OGN Apex has had multiple games very significantly impacted by what team had the better Lucio player.

His entry barrier or whatever the term you'd use for that is low though, he's definitely easy to pick up and do well with but playing him perfectly is very difficult and not very applicable in matchmaking anyways.

[Onikaroshi]

Play what you want and get good at those characters you like. You'll do better on something you enjoy playing then on the "meta" that doesn't even work below Masters/GM.

And don't let anyone bitch about your picks, 90% of the time in Bronze-Diamond its THOSE people that cause the loss and not the person playing widow/torb/etc.

[Endus]

Care to elaborate on that?

He is the easiest character in the game to play imo.

In high-end play, he's not just "bunny hop like an idiot and hit E if things get hairy". You need to know when to use his speed boost (I've saved teams from D.va bombs by boosting and getting everyone to cover), you need to be great at wall-riding and climbing so you can A> take shortcuts and B> avoid enemy fire, getting really good at booping can take some practice, etc.

I just find that the jump between the two is rather large (and I don't claim to have made it, myself).

[Malfurion]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEz...nmHJSGu9wmOvsw

[Ravex]

Lucio in a competitive enviroment is way different, I'm fairly high ranked and it doesn't even happen there.

There's plenty of pro teams who are actually starting to look at players who are skilled at the hero and making roster changes because of it, OGN Apex has had multiple games very significantly impacted by what team had the better Lucio player.

His entry barrier or whatever the term you'd use for that is low though, he's definitely easy to pick up and do well with but playing him perfectly is very difficult and not very applicable in matchmaking anyways.

That really could be said about any hero to be honest. I view Zen and Ana much higher skill cap then him (even with Anas LoL grenade) I'd even go as far as Mercy having a higher skill ceiling then him.

- - - Updated - - -

In high-end play, he's not just "bunny hop like an idiot and hit E if things get hairy". You need to know when to use his speed boost (I've saved teams from D.va bombs by boosting and getting everyone to cover), you need to be great at wall-riding and climbing so you can A> take shortcuts and B> avoid enemy fire, getting really good at booping can take some practice, etc.

I just find that the jump between the two is rather large (and I don't claim to have made it, myself).

I'd agree with what you said making the difference between a good and a bad lucio but I still don't see a high skill ceiling.

Wall riding and well timed speed boosts are really his only "demanding" skill based play.

[Woobels]

That really could be said about any hero to be honest. I view Zen and Ana much higher skill cap then him (even with Anas LoL grenade) I'd even go as far as Mercy having a higher skill ceiling then him.

- - - Updated - - -



I'd agree with what you said making the difference between a good and a bad lucio but I still don't see a high skill ceiling.

Wall riding and well timed speed boosts are really his only "demanding" skill based play.

How is Mercy's skill ceiling possibly higher?

[Ravex]

How is Mercy's skill ceiling possibly higher?

Can be punished much easier for bad positioning. Has to always be aware of the enemy teams ults and positioning because that ult is not doing shit if your in the middle of the action.

Knowing when to glide and drop, knowing when a 1 person res will make the difference between capping the point instead of hiding 50 meters from the fight just to swoop in after and res her team in front of a set up full team and burning the ult for no reason (I have seen that SOOOOO many times)

A lot of mercy also don't realize they have a gun.

Bare in mind I'm not a support player so I have no bias, if anything I have a bias AGAINST mercy because of the skill ceiling.

This has nothing to do with me saying Lucio is bad either, my argument is that the difference between a good Lucio and a great one is much smaller then say a mcree, phara, Rein, Anna ect. He's pretty much like a Soldier or Hog.

- - - Updated - - -

People will hate you for Hanzo because of this shit reason - "There is rarely anyone who plays him well so, Hanzo is shit. It's not about the player." which is totally wrong. Hanzo is just fine.

It's not issue if someone picks Lucio if there is Mercy as well.

It's honestly not really wrong though. It's like Hunters, DKs, and Demon hunters in the respective times. So many people gravitate towards the "cool" characters you end up seeing a much higher % of baddies making it always and alarming pick. I'm with you though he is fine in the right hands.

[Woobels]

Can be punished much easier for bad positioning. Has to always be aware of the enemy teams ults and positioning because that ult is not doing shit if your in the middle of the action.

Knowing when to glide and drop, knowing when a 1 person res will make the difference between capping the point instead of hiding 50 meters from the fight just to swoop in after and res her team in front of a set up full team and burning the ult for no reason (I have seen that SOOOOO many times)

A lot of mercy also don't realize they have a gun.

Bare in mind I'm not a support player so I have no bias, if anything I have a bias AGAINST mercy because of the skill ceiling.

This has nothing to do with me saying Lucio is bad either, my argument is that the difference between a good Lucio and a great one is much smaller then say a mcree, phara, Rein, Anna ect. He's pretty much like a Soldier or Hog.

- - - Updated - - -



It's honestly not really wrong though. It's like Hunters, DKs, and Demon hunters in the respective times. So many people gravitate towards the "cool" characters you end up seeing a much higher % of baddies making it always and alarming pick. I'm with you though he is fine in the right hands.

I think Mercy is harder to pick up and do well with, but her ceiling is 'lower' than Lucio's, she caps out quicker if that makes sense? I'm bad at wording this.

I know what Mercy needs to do to work but it's not as mechanically hard as what Lucio can do when played well and a lot of the things Mercy has to track he has too.

Small things like dislodging people from high ground with boops while staying alive seem like really minimal things but they get more and more important as teams get better, I've watched pro games that were almost entirely won just because a Lucio player was constantly denying their Ana high ground while he stayed alive and did the usual Lucio stuff.

I don't know, opinions vary, I get what you're saying about Mercy though.

[Mormolyce]

I'm wondering if there's a good resource for advanced Overwatch info that will help me understand why people hate me playing Hanzo or why they ask for Mercy over Lucio. Which defense/offense heroes work best for which maps? I knew of Overpwn a while ago but it seems they've shut down and it just redirects to these forums.

Mercy's ult is good for wipe recovery. But both are solid heal picks.

Hanzo is probably rock bottom in the current meta and as he's a sniper he has little to no point presence. You have to be really, really good to play him well (which most Hanzo players are not) and even if you do, he's still not that effective. The skills you use to play high level Hanzo would be far better used on say, Soldier or McCree.

- - - Updated - - -

People will hate you for Hanzo because of this shit reason - "There is rarely anyone who plays him well so, Hanzo is shit. It's not about the player." which is totally wrong. Hanzo is just fine.

He is not at all.

He might be fine if the 2-2-2 or triple tank meta were never a thing and the game was full of squishy heroes.

- - - Updated - - -

Play what you want and get good at those characters you like. You'll do better on something you enjoy playing then on the "meta" that doesn't even work below Masters/GM.

If you play basically anything other than 2-2-2 in Gold or Plat, you will be flattened. Widow or Hanzo picks are frequently deadly to your team too.

The quality of play may be worse in lower ranks, but they stick to comps like glue. That much they know. If you pick something wacky, they'll simply overpower you on comp.

[Mormolyce]

Ok, lets just make meta heroes only active per seasons? You know that is not how it works.

Honestly if they aren't going to do something to fix Hanzo and Widow it'd probably be better for everyone if they did...

There's always Quick Play.

[Daymanmb]

Care to elaborate on that?

He is the easiest character in the game to play imo.

Theres a difference between mastering and starting out. Yes hes easy to pick up and play, arguably the easiest but spend 10 mins watching a pro play him and youll understand.

Ive learned soooo much from watching Stylosa and Muselks videos on youtube and theyre usually fun to watch too.
https://www.youtube.com/user/unitlosttube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd5...OvrLVL2v7Nl61w

[Daymanmb]

He doesnt offer any utility thats actually meaningful

Hang on... his shift is amazing utility, especially against would be flankers/divers.