WW Monk counter class?

[Omaski]

Easily? Ret can only beat WW if he doesn't take that auto bubble Talent, otherwise he has no defenses vs Touch of Karma other than LoH every ten minutes. But if WW is loosing to a ret, WW can just simply escape from the fight or kite ret for 1.5 minutes untill ToK is up again.

Also, Rogue has no chance vs WW. Those two must be really really bad, while Rogue has to be super skilled

Nope, Rets have too many Stun breaks (especially if Ret is human, as i am) and better defensives/healing (not even counting LoH), too many fight resets hurt the monk, not the Ret. In my experiences against WW monks, i can force ToK with a stun without even popping wings simply because WW monks are squishy and Ret attacks hit pretty hard against leather wearers. Yes it is true that a monk can run away and Ret will not be able to catch one, but (and this is the ret trump card against most melee classes) Ret healing is wayyy better than WW monk so if the monk runs away to heal, the Ret will be healing too also Ret defensives are wayyy better than WW monk, the monk running away is just allowing strong ret defensives to come back off CD.

I'd sum the fight up with this...if a monk trinkets the first HoJ, he will die in the second one.

[Snegovik]

also Ret's healing is much much better, so even if monk runs away, ret can top up his hp and mount up chase WW, while monk's healing is much weaker and he will go oom before fully topping off full hp.

[Saverem]

also Ret's healing is much much better, so even if monk runs away, ret can top up his hp and mount up chase WW, while monk's healing is much weaker and he will go oom before fully topping off full hp.

It's sort of a trade-off. Yes, the Ret's self castable heal heals for like 2X or 3X more each cast than the WW heal. But the Ret can only cast it like 3 or 4 times before they go OOM and need to wait on mana where as the WW can pretty much keep casting it indefinitely.

Overall though, I would definitely prefer having the Ret heal over the WW heal. My WW is in over 900 gear and gets the 10% buff in PvP and his self heal still only heals him for like 87k in instance PvP and about 124k in world PvP. Pretty shitty.

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Easily? Ret can only beat WW if he doesn't take that auto bubble Talent, otherwise he has no defenses vs Touch of Karma other than LoH every ten minutes. But if WW is loosing to a ret, WW can just simply escape from the fight or kite ret for 1.5 minutes untill ToK is up again.

Also, Rogue has no chance vs WW. Those two must be really really bad, while Rogue has to be super skilled

Depends on where they are. If it's world PvP, WWs have zero chance of beating a Ret (assuming similar gear and skill). Especially if they have LoH up. However, like you said, they could easily escape from the Ret, so technically Ret wouldn't be able to beat the WW either.

In instanced PvP, I'd say WWs have a better chance of beating a Ret there since both sides are doing less damage and Rets can't just 3 shot WWs like they can in worldpvp, it gives the WW time to work their CC/kite magic and wear the Pally down.

I've been in situations in 2s where my partner died against the team and I was left alone to kill 2 (allbeit half dead) opponents. I've gone 1v2 against a DK/Pally team. I remember killing the DK and then kiting the Pally until my CDs were up and then going ham on him and winning the fight. I don't know what Pally's bubble CD is in PvP, but I definitely got off a second ToK/ToD on him before his bubble was up again.

[Snegovik]

Ya if ww kites , ret can do 0 to stop monk. Rets bubble CD if speced Into auto bubble is 4min down from 5, pre nerf it was 2.5min.

[Deleted]

Rets can only kill WW monks within HoJ. So it all depends if the Ret does enough damage to kill in HoJ. In world PvP this can be the case, in instanced PvP usually not. A good Monk will only trinket HoJ if wings are up (in instanced PvP).

As a WW monk myself I only lose to Rets in world PvP if they are able to kill me in the second HoJ without wings up. Otherweise I'm switching between kiting and bursting untill they are out of CDs.

[Deleted]

Rets can only kill WW monks within HoJ. So it all depends if the Ret does enough damage to kill in HoJ. In world PvP this can be the case, in instanced PvP usually not. A good Monk will only trinket HoJ if wings are up (in instanced PvP).

As a WW monk myself I only lose to Rets in world PvP if they are able to kill me in the second HoJ without wings up. Otherweise I'm switching between kiting and bursting untill they are out of CDs.

u definitly havent faced competent ret. HoJ talented potentially every 20sec, 2 HoJ in 35s(exy) wings. ww tries to kite, ret heals, the more kite the sooner WoA, AW will be off CD. if kite during AW: Chivalry+nitro+bubble/HoF. Aegisjalmar as last resort, but the only encounter where it was needed so far was Blood DK at 7,8m HP...

[Omaski]

WW monks are assuming that while they are kiting a (good) Ret that they have the upper hand...NO, you dont, kiting works against you. while you run and heal the Ret is doing the same but 3x's more efficiently while also getting their multitude of defensive's back off CD. Again, WW monks depend on killing thru lockdown...but you cant lockdown a Ret with all CDs up.

[chaarrllee3000]

Is there any class/spec who can beat WW Monk 1 vs 1? I have in mind instanced PvP, not WPvP.
These guys have so many tools to escape, kite, survive, heal, burst you down ...

As a windwalker player, I would like to answer your question.

And my answer is that...

As a windwalker, I would have to say ANY class can beat us 1v1. Because we are just incredibly squishy because first we are leather-wearers. We are not like an Arms/Fury Warrior or Frost DK or Retpally who wears plate armor who can take quite a bit of damage in the arena. And they can. Warrior, DK, Retpally CAN take quite a bit of damage in arenas. I cringe in fear whenever I get one of them in my skirmish/arenas, when I have to fight them, they are pretty tanky.

Being tanky is THEIR thing.

Out thing is our mobility. Windwalker monk is so incredibly mobile and that is why the class/spec is so fun, at least for me. Two roll charges and Flying Serpent Kick and a Root breaker talent and a Teleport!! What's not to love about the Windwalker monk? And they can CC too. Our Paralyze is only 15 sec cooldown long, making it pretty damn reliable.

Now I am just going off topic now about how I love windwalker monk and how it is my main, so I will end this here.

But to answer your question again, I will say ANY class can beat us. It just depends on how skilled the player is who is controlling the character.


Edit:
I don't like what I previously said, as I don't think it was a good answer.

The classes I have trouble with as a 1400ish player (1400-1500 scrub lol) are:

Ferals.

They are a beast in the arena. Hogmanlolz did a video about them title "The Beastly Melee". And they are. They really are the beastly melee class of Legion. They have always been not just Legion.

Mages.

Mages are quite annoying. Their root capabilities are just so very strong.

Retpally.

Huge burst! Retpallies have huge burst and very nice survivability with their bubbles (divine shield, blessing of protection).

Druids.

I hate druids sooo much! Because of their "act of shapeshifting removes slows" immunity to slows. Which makes it very hard for me to stay on their ass in the arena. I just spam my monk hamstring (disable) just trying to stay on them.


Edit 2:
Actually I do like my first answer. Any class can beat us it just depends how skilled the player is.

[Tyrannica]

Druids.

I hate druids sooo much! Because of their "act of shapeshifting removes slows" immunity to slows. Which makes it very hard for me to stay on their ass in the arena. I just spam my monk hamstring (disable) just trying to stay on them.


Edit 2:
Actually I do like my first answer. Any class can beat us it just depends how skilled the player is.

as you hate druids so much, i just want to point out they are kinda the fotm in wpvp, saw a 1 billion hp bear tonight ganking other people while in stealth. At least they do not have spectral sight.

1 billion hp along with 2 shot abilities, think about it.

Ferals are big in arenas and thats it.

Laser chics are big in rbgs AND wpvp, 2 beams and you are dead and heal like a dedicated healer, with kinda the same mobility as a monk.

ofcs some gear is required too and stats enhancers boosts like flowers etc.

the only annoying mechanic from a monk i found so far, that could not be outplayed, is, that they can be pretty nasty in running away and can use teleport in WG while holding the flagg to move over obstacles and heights, what feels like a hack in this very case.

[Deleted]

Nope, Rets have too many Stun breaks (especially if Ret is human, as i am) and better defensives/healing (not even counting LoH), too many fight resets hurt the monk, not the Ret. In my experiences against WW monks, i can force ToK with a stun without even popping wings simply because WW monks are squishy and Ret attacks hit pretty hard against leather wearers. Yes it is true that a monk can run away and Ret will not be able to catch one, but (and this is the ret trump card against most melee classes) Ret healing is wayyy better than WW monk so if the monk runs away to heal, the Ret will be healing too also Ret defensives are wayyy better than WW monk, the monk running away is just allowing strong ret defensives to come back off CD.

I'd sum the fight up with this...if a monk trinkets the first HoJ, he will die in the second one.

WW is equal if not stronger than ret
Have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K24gvysdbA

savix losing consistently to a ww monk in arena 1v1s

[Deleted]

WW is equal if not stronger than ret
Have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K24gvysdbA

savix losing consistently to a ww monk in arena 1v1s

maybe u should watch the vid? u have an agenda, cuz:

ret wins...

btw - Savix (who is competent ret) spec is "critical" (like all proc-based specs...): Divine Intervention instead of Chivalry (Autobubble vs mobility), and even worse Divine Purpose instead of Crusade.
example fight 2: he would nuked opponent with 15 stacks crusade in 2. stun after bubble if he would have used Divine Shield tactically when monk applies ToK after wings and then 2. stun...
in general is proc spec russian roulette spec, and Savix usually offensive gameplay inverts to defensive...
tbh i was surprised, cuz in his latest uploads this crap spec became standard


EDIT: what me dont gets is: y do u post a vid as prove of ur argumentation (that proves u wrong), u havent even watched? sry, but wtf?

[Deleted]

WW got nothing on a BM hunter.

[Aleax]

maybe u should watch the vid? u have an agenda, cuz:

ret wins...

btw - Savix (who is competent ret) spec is "critical" (like all proc-based specs...): Divine Intervention instead of Chivalry (Autobubble vs mobility), and even worse Divine Purpose instead of Crusade.
example fight 2: he would nuked opponent with 15 stacks crusade in 2. stun after bubble if he would have used Divine Shield tactically when monk applies ToK after wings and then 2. stun...
in general is proc spec russian roulette spec, and Savix usually offensive gameplay inverts to defensive...
tbh i was surprised, cuz in his latest uploads this crap spec became standard


EDIT: what me dont gets is: y do u post a vid as prove of ur argumentation (that proves u wrong), u havent even watched? sry, but wtf?

Ret wins the first 2 matches, then consistently loses.

in his latest uploads this crap spec became standard

Savix is spec that way because Crusades may be kitted out. Sounds that this spec works for Ret, gladiators who were ret used this spec last I checked.