1. #1
    Deleted

    Question Why is haste cap so important for shadow?

    Hey guys, girls and those who are between them!

    I have a question about Shadow: why is the 10k haste cap so important for us priests? I know the stat priorites that ~10k haste > mastery > crit > more haste > versa ... but wondering if someone doesn't have the cap does it hurts a lot in dps aswell? Why is it so important to have it near 10k? More tics? Faster VF? Or...?

    My priest has ~9200 haste, but got 890 Erratic Metronome aswell. I don't have the legendary bracer yet so I equip a crit/mastery 890 one, however got the haste/versa one from Botanist aswell in 890 which gives around 620 haste. Should I use it instead so I loose mastery&crit but earn some haste instead? Then I would have haste ~9820 or so...

    Thanks for the advices!

  2. #2
    THere is probably a well versed Mathematical reason as to why 10k haste is the best, but for me personally its more about rotational things.

    At 10k haste the rotation feels more fluent than it does at 9k as an example. This comes down to preference in the end.

    The haste "cap" has been in the discussion since launch and switched around several times.

    That said, there is not caps in Legion as the the spells, cooldowns and ticks work dynamically and changes. THere is no "snapshotting" like there has been in the past. THis means that in general. Play however you want to play.

    My guild killed Tichondrius HC for the first time last night, so hardly cutting edge progression, but I managed to snag a 93% on Warcraftlogs meaning I am doing something right. I have the metronome (at 970) the 4 set bonus and had ~10200 haste.

    At the end of the day, excluding top 50 mythic guilds, you can do whatever you want. Getting the 10k haste is good according to the h2p guys (and they are really fucking good at what they do), but they also say that it shoudnt be the end of all things. You need to balance your stats around

    Feelycraft isn't as bad as people claim

  3. #3
    Rough explanation:

    - Generating insanity (and thus voidform stacks) is solely a function of haste (note: w/o AS).
    - Haste increases insanity generation linearly, however vf stacks do not linearly increase with insanity - you get less vf stacks per point of insanity the longer you are in vf.
    - At some point, the damage generated by each haste is taken over by mastery/crit.

    Here is the key point: - the curve is smooth thus no discontinuity jumps* (which is to say there are no steps/breakpoints). So you will continue to gain until you reach the marginal productivity of haste.

    Basically: for the average player you won't suddenly see a big difference in damage when you reach the optimal value of haste, it's just to say that until you reach the optimal value of haste haste will give you the most bang for the buck. So you can try reach that haste in a natural way (without giving up int or making drastic gearing decisions)

    *excluding unique exceptions with void torrent/set bonus. There are unique points of haste which can allow you to basically "sync" a vt time with a former vt+PI vf cycle such that you keep vt on cd in an optimal way in ideal simulated setting. Secondly, you can gain the 5th vb with the right amount of LI (minimum 10@25%(10k) haste; lower haste requires higher LI) as long as you can keep the momentum going but these are advanced topics I don't really have required gear/skill myself.

  4. #4
    I'm tired of all the misinformation on this topic.

    There is no haste CAP. Not even a real soft cap. There's a point at which haste no longer straight up wins as the best stat. This doesn't mean it's infinitely better than mastery/crit before you reach 10k / 12k- it just means it's slightly better.

    Go for ilevel in 99% of cases, with some exceptions like versatility on jewelry. Never give up more than 5 ilevels for some more haste. You can get by with 6k haste. It's not optimal, but you'll do better compared with sacrificing a load of intellect from ilevel. This also applies to jewelry. A 900 ilevel Crit / Mastery ring is almost definitely better for you than its 880 haste / mastery counterpart regardless of your other stats.

    In fact, if you're running AS, mastery and crit both overtake haste much sooner (as early as 8k depending on legendaries).

  5. #5
    Deleted
    There is no haste cap, and haste isnt even the best stat unless you only have around 7500 of it.

    https://www.howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9495

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jobbly View Post
    There is no haste cap, and haste isnt even the best stat unless you only have around 7500 of it.

    https://www.howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9495
    let's read more than straight up copy graphs shall we

    That said, the advice we have is for players to aim, in the long run, the following criteria:

    at least 10.000 Haste*
    at least 4.000 Crit
    Mastery
    Aka 10k haste buffed is very important.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelrine View Post
    let's read more than straight up copy graphs shall we



    Aka 10k haste buffed is very important.
    You are misinterpreting their advice for a general gearing strategy, as some sort of must-have cap for haste.
    Haste scaling doesn't work that way, there's no magical barrier you must surpass for the spec to work.

    Between 10k and 12k, mastery overtakes haste with no legendaries, T19 4-set and specced into San'Layn.
    Therefore, aiming for 10k is a good idea for a general gearing strategy for most players, which is what H2P is trying to get across. GENERAL advice.

    Factors such as set bonuses, spec, legendaries and trinkets can drastically change your stat scalings.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelrine View Post
    let's read more than straight up copy graphs shall we



    Aka 10k haste buffed is very important.
    I'll never understand why H2P posts advice that directly contradicts their data.

    They show mastery being ahead after 7k haste, but say you should reach for 10k haste? Especially when 10k haste is fairly unobtainable without extremely high i level gear while wearing BiS trinkets and 4 set.

    It's really bullocks. Get 7-8k~ haste and go mastery. Understand that mastery > haste > crit and gear to that

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by csebe View Post
    Hey guys, girls and those who are between them!
    Triggered

    /10char
    Resident BM Asshole


  10. #10
    Deleted
    i have legendary shoulders, whispers in dark and Eratic Metronome and only 8.5k of haste. The simc "tells" me to focus on mastery

  11. #11
    I used to think it was related to 4 set, and I did find it easier to consistently get an extra void bolt under hero over 10k, but that was heroism only. Lingering insanity, legendaries, latency and play probably means the 4 set isn't a major factor.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Balfas View Post
    i have legendary shoulders, whispers in dark and Eratic Metronome and only 8.5k of haste. The simc "tells" me to focus on mastery
    that's because those three items directly correlate to the value of haste versus mastery.

    Erratic Metronome is a glorified haste statstick(although more valuable than one at the same ilvl). Whispers in the Dark works pretty much the same way, giving you a bunch of haste(and with an ultra dynamic class like SP, whispers works really well with our dot damage and toolkit). Shoulders also place you at 3 stacks of VF instantly, further increasing mastery value and therefore decreasing haste value. You effectively have over 11k haste(roughly) with these items, even if the physical value is 8.5k, just because of how they interact with our kit.

    And this is a prime example of why 10k haste is NOT mandatory.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephirdd View Post
    that's because those three items directly correlate to the value of haste versus mastery.

    Erratic Metronome is a glorified haste statstick(although more valuable than one at the same ilvl). Whispers in the Dark works pretty much the same way, giving you a bunch of haste(and with an ultra dynamic class like SP, whispers works really well with our dot damage and toolkit). Shoulders also place you at 3 stacks of VF instantly, further increasing mastery value and therefore decreasing haste value. You effectively have over 11k haste(roughly) with these items, even if the physical value is 8.5k, just because of how they interact with our kit.

    And this is a prime example of why 10k haste is NOT mandatory.
    and now i get a trinket with mastery 875 (urn) and simc tell me to change over the Erratic Metronome ^^

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