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  1. #21
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    as far as I know Demo is better than Affliction. For me personally it is less fun, but Demo seems to be the highest damage warlock specc :

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#difficulty=4
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#difficulty=3

    throughout all 3 difficulties
    I'm not much for how the specs perform in Normal and Heroic, but I can assure you that the rankings in mythic are skewed.

    For starters Affliction got triple the parses of Demo due to it's strengths. A big core of the Demo players are the elitists that stick with the spec through fire and water, so they bring up the numbers slightly due to performance. Whereas Affli has a few spec jumpers so it's brought down slighly due to lower performance.

    Secondly, there is yet to be any posted parses of Demo on Gul'dan. Not sure what it does to the averages but it seems as if it bumps it up a bit. If you go into each individual fight Demo is not looking as good as the statistics would indicate.

    Thirdly, I main Demo. I too frequently feel the weaknesses of Demo when I progress on Mythic. Like on Krosus, even though the numbers are decent enough, the add killing is pathetic so even though it would seem to perform well it's inability to dps priority adds brings it down a lot

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    I'm not much for how the specs perform in Normal and Heroic, but I can assure you that the rankings in mythic are skewed.

    For starters Affliction got triple the parses of Demo due to it's strengths. A big core of the Demo players are the elitists that stick with the spec through fire and water, so they bring up the numbers slightly due to performance. Whereas Affli has a few spec jumpers so it's brought down slighly due to lower performance.

    Secondly, there is yet to be any posted parses of Demo on Gul'dan. Not sure what it does to the averages but it seems as if it bumps it up a bit. If you go into each individual fight Demo is not looking as good as the statistics would indicate.

    Thirdly, I main Demo. I too frequently feel the weaknesses of Demo when I progress on Mythic. Like on Krosus, even though the numbers are decent enough, the add killing is pathetic so even though it would seem to perform well it's inability to dps priority adds brings it down a lot
    The funny thing is. Demo is actually better at killings those adds on mythic krosus compared to affliction. Yes it is a bigger waste for Demo and they lose some sort of long term dps compared to affliction, but the speed of killing adds is faster with Demo.

    The demo player in my guild has quite decent add damage although I am a way better player. I feel like demo is better at killings add, but affliction does profit more from those adds, because of WoC stacks for example. And affliction does get the soul shards back when dying adds are afflicted by UA.

    I agree though, both affliction and demo are tunneling speccs that perform best when purely tunneling one target

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    The funny thing is. Demo is actually better at killings those adds on mythic krosus compared to affliction. Yes it is a bigger waste for Demo and they lose some sort of long term dps compared to affliction, but the speed of killing adds is faster with Demo.

    The demo player in my guild has quite decent add damage although I am a way better player. I feel like demo is better at killings add, but affliction does profit more from those adds, because of WoC stacks for example. And affliction does get the soul shards back when dying adds are afflicted by UA.

    I agree though, both affliction and demo are tunneling speccs that perform best when purely tunneling one target
    Would you mind asking how he does the add damage? I have a hard time imagining that Demo could do anything compared to Affliction throwing double UA and drain on an add.

    I've been progressing on this fight for a while and the only time I shine on add damage is when we are wiping because I am the only one doing add damage.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Would you mind asking how he does the add damage? I have a hard time imagining that Demo could do anything compared to Affliction throwing double UA and drain on an add.

    I've been progressing on this fight for a while and the only time I shine on add damage is when we are wiping because I am the only one doing add damage.
    At a guess I'd say Implosion.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Would you mind asking how he does the add damage? I have a hard time imagining that Demo could do anything compared to Affliction throwing double UA and drain on an add.

    I've been progressing on this fight for a while and the only time I shine on add damage is when we are wiping because I am the only one doing add damage.
    Tha'kiel's discord, golden demo artifact trait has 20% chance to procc per demon per mob since 7.1.5 on demonwrath if I'm not mistaken. In other words, it procs like crazy.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvenheart View Post
    Tha'kiel's discord, golden demo artifact trait has 20% chance to procc per demon per mob since 7.1.5 on demonwrath if I'm not mistaken. In other words, it procs like crazy.
    Yeah well, our adds doesn't stack when we kill Krosus. So that isn't a feasible plan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz0rs View Post
    At a guess I'd say Implosion.
    Rolling Implosion on a fight that has such a tight enrage timer is irresponsible and bad. Not to mention that Implosion requires you to build soul shards, summon imps and THEN implode them. Chances are you won't have much left to implode at that point, and if you do you are probably wiping.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Yeah well, our adds doesn't stack when we kill Krosus
    Oh Krosus? Demonbolt and Hand of Guldan/dreadstalkers. The pets will autoswitch to krosus once the add is dead and demonbolt gets damage from demons active, not demons currently on your target.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Would you mind asking how he does the add damage? I have a hard time imagining that Demo could do anything compared to Affliction throwing double UA and drain on an add.

    I've been progressing on this fight for a while and the only time I shine on add damage is when we are wiping because I am the only one doing add damage.
    If i were you, i wouldn't waste any soul shards on them, hit them with 2 to 3 demonbolts then go right back onto the boss. Mages/Hunters will finish them off. For our kill i also pulled off one warrior to help the range in our group. He soaked way back and just ran up to any add on his way back to the boss and melted their face.

    That is what i did.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Rolling Implosion on a fight that has such a tight enrage timer is irresponsible and bad. Not to mention that Implosion requires you to build soul shards, summon imps and THEN implode them. Chances are you won't have much left to implode at that point, and if you do you are probably wiping.
    Like I said, it was a guess. It wouldn't necessarily be as cumbersome or as much of a DPS loss as you make it out to be though. When the adds spawn hit Implosion on the biggest clump (which is 2 at most) and proceed DPSing Krosus again, there's really no need for setup whatsoever as you'll always have imps up. For the boss itself you could try to cast Implosion right after casting HoG as per Not's guide to minimize the dps loss of picking the talent. The old imps will Implode and the new ones will spawn normally. Perhaps all you can do is just cast some demonbolts/pets on them if it HAPPENS to align, but that's quite unreliable.

    Dealing with short-lived adds will always cause a large hit to your DPS as Demo no matter what you do, that's the exact weak point of the spec. If the enrage timer is also an issue it's probably better to re-assign people between tunneling and add damage, but that's up to your raid leader obviously. For clearer pointers someone more knowledgeable would have to give advise; this weak spot of Demo is one of the main reasons I haven't played it since Ursoc, as I'm personally always assigned to add burst.
    Last edited by Duckz0rs; 2017-03-22 at 02:17 PM.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Colactic View Post
    Would you mind asking how he does the add damage? I have a hard time imagining that Demo could do anything compared to Affliction throwing double UA and drain on an add.

    I've been progressing on this fight for a while and the only time I shine on add damage is when we are wiping because I am the only one doing add damage.
    He said he is playing with Summon Darkglare. That would explain why his add damage is quite good, but overall damage not that great but since the adds are our biggest problem due to our raid composition he says he accepts the overall damage loss as long as the adds die fast.

    No idea if that is a smart thing to do or if he is an idiot. Like I said he is rather average and I am no expert on Demo.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    He said he is playing with Summon Darkglare. That would explain why his add damage is quite good, but overall damage not that great but since the adds are our biggest problem due to our raid composition he says he accepts the overall damage loss as long as the adds die fast.

    No idea if that is a smart thing to do or if he is an idiot. Like I said he is rather average and I am no expert on Demo.
    Doing what the raid needs is always the right thing to do, unless someone else can do it better with less of a loss. Being a meter-hog when you could've saved attempts is being an idiot. Granted, having a demo lock focus on adds is far from ideal...

    Disclaimer: This is obviously a generalization without knowing the details of specific setups.
    Last edited by Duckz0rs; 2017-03-22 at 05:36 PM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz0rs View Post
    Doing what the raid needs is always the right thing to do, unless someone else can do it better with less of a loss. Being a meter-hog when you could've saved attempts is being an idiot. Granted, having a demo lock focus on adds is far from ideal...

    Disclaimer: This is obviously a generalization without knowing the details of specific setups.
    yeah I full nuke the adds aswell, spamming UA and draining. We run with a lot of dot classes. I could switch to Destro for Krosus, but my boss damage would be abysmally low then

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    He said he is playing with Summon Darkglare. That would explain why his add damage is quite good, but overall damage not that great but since the adds are our biggest problem due to our raid composition he says he accepts the overall damage loss as long as the adds die fast.

    No idea if that is a smart thing to do or if he is an idiot. Like I said he is rather average and I am no expert on Demo.
    Well, I am not gonna say it's wrong if it works for you. But in my experience, the time it takes for the adds to die you shouldn't be having the time to summon a darklare and doom everything up aswell as having it do releveant damage. Things just need to die quicker, and are in my guild.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz0rs View Post
    Like I said, it was a guess. It wouldn't necessarily be as cumbersome or as much of a DPS loss as you make it out to be though. When the adds spawn hit Implosion on the biggest clump (which is 2 at most) and proceed DPSing Krosus again, there's really no need for setup whatsoever as you'll always have imps up. For the boss itself you could try to cast Implosion right after casting HoG as per Not's guide to minimize the dps loss of picking the talent. The old imps will Implode and the new ones will spawn normally. Perhaps all you can do is just cast some demonbolts/pets on them if it HAPPENS to align, but that's quite unreliable.

    Dealing with short-lived adds will always cause a large hit to your DPS as Demo no matter what you do, that's the exact weak point of the spec. If the enrage timer is also an issue it's probably better to re-assign people between tunneling and add damage, but that's up to your raid leader obviously. For clearer pointers someone more knowledgeable would have to give advise; this weak spot of Demo is one of the main reasons I haven't played it since Ursoc, as I'm personally always assigned to add burst.
    Well, in my guild we just needed the singletarget dps. Our overall add management improved as we got better at soaking the circles. Not to mention I am assigned at the far back of the bridge, by the time for me it takes to get there and find my spot all my imps have timed out basically, so no implosion for me.

  14. #34
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haajib View Post
    The spec is fundamentally "broken" and not in the good way. I guess its somewhat viable in battleground pvp, but for Arena, PVP, PVE, questing, its out of the question.
    i love demo just for the looks (summoning armies of demons and the artifact)
    and the playstyle of summonign demons

    but yeah its so fucking amnnnoying to play and broken... for doing anything solo like questing i go affliction, for dungeon i go destro, and for pvp i go afffliciton
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Galbatroix View Post
    If i were you, i wouldn't waste any soul shards on them, hit them with 2 to 3 demonbolts then go right back onto the boss. Mages/Hunters will finish them off. For our kill i also pulled off one warrior to help the range in our group. He soaked way back and just ran up to any add on his way back to the boss and melted their face.

    That is what i did.
    It's what I ended up doing too in the end. But the original point of this discussion was that Affliction can pull off better singletarget dps whilst still doing better add damage. Kind of why I kinda dislike playing my spec atm. Not to mention we are pushing our healers to the extreme to make sure we get as many dps as possible. Affliction self healing would be very good there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvenheart View Post
    Oh Krosus? Demonbolt and Hand of Guldan/dreadstalkers. The pets will autoswitch to krosus once the add is dead and demonbolt gets damage from demons active, not demons currently on your target.
    That is still pathetically low damage compared to just about any other class. I think our Assassination Rogue was the only guy doing less add damage than me.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    as far as I know Demo is better than Affliction. For me personally it is less fun, but Demo seems to be the highest damage warlock specc :

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#difficulty=4
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#difficulty=3

    throughout all 3 difficulties
    Eh, Aff pulls ahead on some fights where you can get a lot of soul flame damage in from adds. Would imagine that soul flame damage will be adjusted at some point in Legion. Its disgusting how much damage that trait can dish out lol.

  17. #37
    Dreadlord Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    The T20 set bonuses for demo and the 7.2 artifact talent additions have some amazing synergy. I'm looking forward to seeing that in action.

    "I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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  18. #38
    The problem with Demo is that it's terribly boring to play and lacks all the "cool things" it used to have.

    In Draenor i was a big green demon casting cataclysm and waves of fel energy while commanding an army of imps and a wrathguard....

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Conflux View Post
    yeah I full nuke the adds aswell, spamming UA and draining. We run with a lot of dot classes. I could switch to Destro for Krosus, but my boss damage would be abysmally low then
    You shouldn't be using UA and drain on adds unless you have already put dots on at least 5 of them to max your WoC stack. Focusing down a single add with UA+drain means other adds are dying around you that you haven't tagged for WoC.

    The way I usually do it (and how many people do it) is you Corruption at least 5 adds and then you also want to make sure your Corruption is on the last add to die so you can refresh your 5 stack for max uptime on the boss. If you are low on shards you can snipe low ones with a short drain for a guaranteed shard.

    It isn't your job to burst down the adds so if that is something your guild is struggling with that is because the classes that do good add damage aren't doing their job or your group comp just isn't ideal for the boss. Every single Affliction log I have seen on Krosus has like 0.5-2% of their total damage done is to the adds and the good classes are like 10-15% of their damage done to the adds.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    You shouldn't be using UA and drain on adds unless you have already put dots on at least 5 of them to max your WoC stack. Focusing down a single add with UA+drain means other adds are dying around you that you haven't tagged for WoC.

    The way I usually do it (and how many people do it) is you Corruption at least 5 adds and then you also want to make sure your Corruption is on the last add to die so you can refresh your 5 stack for max uptime on the boss. If you are low on shards you can snipe low ones with a short drain for a guaranteed shard.

    It isn't your job to burst down the adds so if that is something your guild is struggling with that is because the classes that do good add damage aren't doing their job or your group comp just isn't ideal for the boss. Every single Affliction log I have seen on Krosus has like 0.5-2% of their total damage done is to the adds and the good classes are like 10-15% of their damage done to the adds.
    Different guilds mate. Different priorities. I know how to maximize damage and I do that on krosus heroic farm, but for mythic Krosus I have to, even if it is a straight dps loss for me

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