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  1. #61
    Mechagnome intrinsc's Avatar
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    May 2013
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    My op: Compared to previous versions of the subtlety spec, Legion subtlety falls right in the middle. It's more fun than Panda sub but not as fun, or engaging, as WoD sub. Sin this expansion is more fun, to me, than Pandas or WoD sin. Outlaw still doesn't measure up to Pandas or WoD Combat, imo.

  2. #62
    No one is saying things shouldn't change, or that they don't need work.

    No one is saying that they didn't do a half-assed job revamping sub.

    My opinion and experience is that i enjoy it the way it is now and look forward to changes making it better. I recognize that blizzard has a vision for each spec, and will provide feedback that supports that while moving towards a better experience instead of saying "LULZ MY PVPZ SUX NOW, Y U TERK MY FW AWAY?" or "GIMEE OLD SUB BCK, I SHTI GOLD AND WISH TO AGAIN" or some other such whining feedback.

    Basically, give them feedback about how they can make it better within their vision of a rogue spec themed around a shadow-phasing/wielding stealthy rogue.

    Also, who ever said it was just you expressing the same opinion? You just tend to be the most obnoxious.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    Basically, give them feedback about how they can make it better within their vision of a rogue spec themed around a shadow-phasing/wielding stealthy rogue.
    v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

    design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

    gg subtlety fixed
    ability pruning killed PvP

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

    design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

    gg subtlety fixed
    Now that sounds really promising. And all this unbiased, objective feedback. Maybe you should continue gazing at your shoes instead of ranting about things of the past.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    one of the best expac blizz release.
    all I hear when you say that is

    "omg so much content, omg so much class fantasy, love having half my spellbook deleted and replaced with flashier animations on top of dumbed down toolkits!"
    ability pruning killed PvP

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    all I hear when you say that is
    Look EN, TOV and NH were great raid, there is a shitload to do in open world, m+ is probably one of the best addition to this game. Yes class fantasy is here via order hall quest line and artefact weapon (wow is an RPG fantasy is quit important in RPG).

    Sry for your loss, but while you are crying your beloved rogue spec is dead I'm having a blast playing sub in M+ pushing higher and higher keys with my friends...

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    v important feedback for blizzard: change your vision of subtlety back to a precise, finesse based, control setup and burst oriented hit & run glass cannon that actually has a reason to go for restealths instead of pressing dance/mongostrike again -- you know, the thing that people who loved playing a rogue so much loved playing

    design specs for the people who previously loved playing them, not for people who may try it out for a bit as their 8th character

    gg subtlety fixed
    It will never happen. They have in the past reverted changes, yes.

    But they will never revert a complete spec re-design. They will change and improve on the new design.

  8. #68
    Frankly, it's annoying trying to weed through this thread with the same negative poster over and over again. My poor scroll button....

    I rerolled away from rogue entirely going into legion. I tested an early version of sub on alpha and it wasn't fun. The quick burst buttons were still there, but the actual numerical burst was shifted into more direct damage being done outside cooldowns. Sub also lost a lot of buttons in the redesign which made it feel too much like the old combat spec. Buttons don't inherently make a spec fun, but for some reason legion sub was just less fun.

    I went back after the launch and leveled up my rogue as sub and it was a little better than the early alpha, but it was still felt like WoD sub with less fun.

    I ended up going back to ranged dps this xpac because they're more desired in raids anyway. But your question was how are they doing and for me personally, they lost so much I rerolled.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Beingbob View Post
    I'm maining WW but looking to reroll for 7.2 as I don't like the direction the spec is going (more resource starved). I've played my 90ish sub rogue a bit recently, and it's fun: it feels like I have a lot of energy/cp to play with, the animations are cool, seems there's some depth, and rogue is a bit appealing as it's pretty much the only melee that's desired by guilds/raids. On the other hand, Outlaw is the least appealing spec in the game to me (rng) and Assassination seems very energy starved and kinda simple.

    I haven't heard much of sub in Legion, Preach gave it a pretty negative preview and most of the sub rogue stuff on youtube seems to be PvP-oriented. Is it fun? Are sub players happy? And very important to me; are there any big frustrations with the spec? For example, as a WW, sometimes our clones don't copy our big spenders and we do less dps than we would normally despite using CDs which is incredibly frustrating.
    No.

    Sub is only fun with legendaries. Outlaw and Assassination are called boring but they are way more fun without legendaries. Outlaw suffers from performance without legendaries while Sub is not fun and suffers performance without legendaries.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    This garbage doesn't even deserve to be called a rogue anymore after the class butchery that Blizzard pulled. I miss Cata/MoP/WoD Sub every single day.
    None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.
    I mean sin rogue is basically the same spec it was in MoP / WoD...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    Look EN, TOV and NH were great raid, there is a shitload to do in open world, m+ is probably one of the best addition to this game. Yes class fantasy is here via order hall quest line and artefact weapon (wow is an RPG fantasy is quit important in RPG).

    Sry for your loss, but while you are crying your beloved rogue spec is dead I'm having a blast playing sub in M+ pushing higher and higher keys with my friends...
    "blah blah blah pve is fun right now"

    thatsnice.gif
    ability pruning killed PvP

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    "blah blah blah pve is fun right now"

    thatsnice.gif
    Yup it's a lot of fun man . Sucks to be a pvp diehard elitist like you... I mean if removing ability was all it took to make toxic player like you quit the game a i say #WORTH IT #GGBLIZZ

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    None of the Rogue specs feel like Rogues.
    For some reason this doesn't seem to bother certain persons who aren't capable of experiencing the game outside of their rotations & damage meters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    Yup it's a lot of fun man . Sucks to be a pvp diehard elitist like you... I mean if removing ability was all it took to make toxic player like you quit the game a i say #WORTH IT #GGBLIZZ
    you're in this thread gloating that the spec I loved for 12 years was ruined, and somehow this makes me the toxic one? ok lol, have a look in the mirror bud

    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Now that sounds really promising. And all this unbiased, objective feedback. Maybe you should continue gazing at your shoes instead of ranting about things of the past.
    objective feedback is a myth

    all of your feedback is biased from your perspective of never even once being above 1500 rating in PvP, for instance.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2017-03-21 at 12:55 AM.
    ability pruning killed PvP

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    all of your feedback is biased from your perspective of never even once being above 1500 rating, for instance
    And people need to be above 1500 rating in wow to be allowed to call out your bs?

    That's like telling the bully in scholl he's not allowed to bully you because he has no idea of how to knit a sweater in 45 hours. nice to have, but completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

    But hey, maybe repeating it will help. Just as in your quest for changing back the sub spec to your nostalgia vision.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    And people need to be above 1500 rating in wow to be allowed to call out your bs?

    That's like telling the bully in scholl he's not allowed to bully you because he has no idea of how to knit a sweater in 45 hours. nice to have, but completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

    But hey, maybe repeating it will help. Just as in your quest for changing back the sub spec to your nostalgia vision.
    it's funny that you think i'm bullshitting when my highest pvp xp on rogue is literally over 1000 rating higher than anything you have ever reached

    clearly i don't have any idea what i'm talking about for such an expert as yourself to call me out

    enjoy playing your dumbed down trashcan spec, Blizzard redesigned it just for players like you

    oh wait you aren't even playing subtlety you play assassin

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    now stop acting like a freaking elitist know it all
    oh my bad i'll pretend to be dumber and less informed than i actually am, will that make you feel better?
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2017-03-21 at 01:00 AM.
    ability pruning killed PvP

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    you're in this thread gloating that the spec I loved for 12 years was ruined, and somehow this makes me the toxic one? ok lol, have a look in the mirror bud
    But to all people that said they liked the spec and the reason you replied with shity "bla bla bla" ...

    You keep arguing only people who should have a say is old school 12 year player or above a pvp rating...

    Every were you go it's the same "blizzed killed my spec, devs are crap, only retarded player like sub now...

    You are the worst person to defend old sub, you represent exactly the elitst jerk 99% of the player base hate, yes you are toxic, sry to break it to you... Keep crying that sub is ruined guess what it's never coming back....

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    But to all people that said they liked the spec and the reason you replied with shity "bla bla bla" ...

    You keep arguing only people who should have a say is old school 12 year player or above a pvp rating...

    Every were you go it's the same "blizzed killed my spec, devs are crap, only retarded player like sub now...

    You are the worst person to defend old sub, you represent exactly the elitst jerk 99% of the player base hate, yes you are toxic, sry to break it to you... Keep crying that sub is ruined guess what it's never coming back....
    literally every high level PvP rogue says Legion Sub is a poorly designed spec. when the opinion is that unanimous among the advanced to expert level players, you have to ask why

    you can hide behind your broken record accusations of "wahhh elitism" all you want but the fact is that every single high level pvp rogue in the game wants this spec reverted to a previous version, so there must be some substance to all those complaints...
    ability pruning killed PvP

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    literally every high level PvP rogue says Legion Sub is a poorly designed spec. when the opinion is that unanimous among the advanced to expert level players, you have to ask why

    you can hide behind your broken record accusations of "wahhh elitism" all you want but the fact is that every single high level pvp rogue in the game wants this spec reverted to a previous version, so there must be some substance to all those complaints...
    i could also hide behind " bla bla bla PvP''

    Yes your spec might be dead in pvp but instead of going everywhere saying we should bring back old sub (will not happen) and that the new sub that many player like playing is the worst spec ever. Go on the official forum, right a point by point thread on places were sub should be improve, via pvp talent or via other realistic means, in a constructive meaner and maybe they will read it. Probable that nothing will ever happen but if you keep crying that you want old sub back, might as well do nothing cause it's not happening. 100% not happening, not even the slight chance.

    TLDR : You either work to improve new sub and hope maybe something change in the way you want, or you keep crying that you want old sub back to be sure nothing will ever change...
    Last edited by Kalador; 2017-03-21 at 02:04 AM.

  19. #79
    Not a fan of the whole shadow dance charges thing. Also i find it incredibly clunky that SD is on the gcd but maybe Im just too spammy in how i play.

  20. #80
    Ok, nothing good is coming out from here. If a civil discussion cannot be done, there's no reason to keep this going.


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