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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    All these people complaining about the nerfs/ups here and on reddit but no-one testing and reporting directly on the PTR-related stuff

    Keep being live players dudz, complaining when the patch comes live, that's totally the best way to make things better
    It's impossible to test changes on the PTR. Everyone locks in the ONE hero that 's actually getting changes, so unless Blizzard does a full patch with tons of hero changes, nobody's getting any opportunity to actually test anything. And if that one hero happens to be one you don't play, then you're not gonna be giving any kind of feedback anyway.

    And no, No Limits doesn't count, because a 6v6 Lucio party is no way to actually test out changes to see how balanced they are either.

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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    It's impossible to test changes on the PTR. Everyone locks in the ONE hero that 's actually getting changes, so unless Blizzard does a full patch with tons of hero changes, nobody's getting any opportunity to actually test anything. And if that one hero happens to be one you don't play, then you're not gonna be giving any kind of feedback anyway.

    And no, No Limits doesn't count, because a 6v6 Lucio party is no way to actually test out changes to see how balanced they are either.
    I mean feedback on how he plays in your team or how it feels to play against him is still considered valuable, I'd argue it's more valuable because no one does that.

  3. #63
    Warchief Fallen Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    All these people complaining about the nerfs/ups here and on reddit but no-one testing and reporting directly on the PTR-related stuff

    Keep being live players dudz, complaining when the patch comes live, that's totally the best way to make things better
    Because blizzard totally listened to the PTR feedback for the bastion changes.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    All these people complaining about the nerfs/ups here and on reddit but no-one testing and reporting directly on the PTR-related stuff
    To be fair, the PTR is largely for finding bugs. I'm not so cynical to believe that Blizzard doesn't listen to feedback, but I do know they don't tune based off of it; they use backend stats tracking. User feedback is a much lower priority for PTR and if it wasn't, they'd bring back an iteration of the old feedback interface they used in alpha/betas years ago for other games that allowed people to leave comments directly in-game, rather than expecting people to create threads on the forums that largely get missed and buried in other threads. Blizzard doesn't want subjective opinions, they want numbers and data, and simply playing the PTR gives them that. They have traditionally sought out high level players for feedback when that was needed.

    Also, every time I go to test stuff on the PTR and there are always tons of other people doing the same. People discussing changes on a message board is not mutually exclusive with doing actual testing and actual feedback. There are clearly people there doing just that.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Because blizzard totally listened to the PTR feedback for the bastion changes.
    If you read the AMA most of the feedback that comes from the PTR is terrible. "OP, NERF, etc". There's not a lot of detailed feedback.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If you read the AMA most of the feedback that comes from the PTR is terrible. "OP, NERF, etc". There's not a lot of detailed feedback.
    Sure, but that doesn't mean all feedback is terrible or non-existent. There was feedback and video evidence of how broken he was

    Bad feedback is a terrible cop out imo

  7. #67
    I'm not really a fan of the changes. Lucio is already fairly difficult to take down for the average player and he's used frequently in competitive matches. It also, once again, puts an emphasis upon very fast paced combat at the expense of stationary characters who thrive off of staying still and picking off their enemies. He also - arguably - has the best method of defending himself against attacks given how often he can knock back his enemies. Very often this results in environmental kills.

  8. #68
    People that are complaining about this are probably the same people that get told to play Lucio in ranked because they can't play anything else lol.

    Now instead of literally being able to afk heal to gold, he will have to react to who is low, run to them (which he can do faster now), heal them up (which he can do better now), and he'll have to pay attention to the game. OH THE HUMANITY! I have to have gamesense?!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    idk I thought the goal was to make him less mandatory, now it just seems like he's better than before even with the radius nerf.

    It's going to be lucio/mercy for a long while it seems
    In what world(rank)?
    Ana is still a 100% pick in high ranks as far as I know(except when there's a Mercy main).

  10. #70
    Not the worst changes overall but a 50% increase in heal seems a bit strong.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ginger View Post
    Not the worst changes overall but a 50% increase in heal seems a bit strong.
    It's a good buff, but the radius is a third of the size as it is on live, which basically means it's only ever going to be doing that much in very clumped teamfights. Smart players will be trying to take out healers first in those situation. With his speed and wall riding he may be good at escaping and surviving, but that's going to mean no heals while he's out of the group unlike now where I can just dance in the backfield and still provide shitty but steady heals. Keeping people that close together also makes you more vulnerable to ults.

    So basically it's a nice buff but I think it comes with some tradeoffs and downsides that won't make it quite as buff as it sounds on paper.

    We'll see though. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed some of these changes.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchles View Post
    I play quite a bit of Lucio and his survivability is a bit too much right now. Two changes I'd suggest. Cap his boost off the wall so it doesn't continually stack (or maybe allows for two stacks) and make his self healing at the old pace while keeping the 50% increase for teammates. I think with those two changes he'll be in that sweet spot where he isn't unkillable in the right hands and still has the increased mobility for the extra zipping between teammates he will have to be doing (if you play him as a support).
    Pretty much called it, though they went with a reduction in the overall boost on the wall instead of a cap on the stack. With the damage increase in the latest PTR, Lucio feels like he is in a really good place.

  13. #73
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...ic/20753618444

    I'm not sure I like the idea of increasing his damage. He does a lot of it as is if he can get hits. I thought that was the point of increasing the projectile speed.

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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...ic/20753618444

    I'm not sure I like the idea of increasing his damage. He does a lot of it as is if he can get hits. I thought that was the point of increasing the projectile speed.
    He doesn't do that much, if they keep these changes he can effectively threaten a lot of other heroes though, curious to see how it works out.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Will be reverted just like the ana changes. This is just a big fat nerf in disguise.
    Boohoo?

    Sounds good to me, Lucio was so boring to play because of how easy it was to get seriously good use out of him compared to other supports. Even Mercy was more difficult to get consistent use out of and she literally doesn't need to aim.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...ic/20753618444

    I'm not sure I like the idea of increasing his damage. He does a lot of it as is if he can get hits. I thought that was the point of increasing the projectile speed.
    If by a lot of damage you mean everyone but Winston can out dps him, then sure.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchles View Post
    If by a lot of damage you mean everyone but Winston can out dps him, then sure.
    I'm still not sure why people place such a big focus on "dps", in a game where that is just an unnecessary thing to calculate. It's a shooter game, not an RPG. Lucio's burst damage is high, his sustained damage is not, due to his three-shot burst. People don't hit every single shot, not even kind of remotely close. Let's stop using RPG terms to describe a shooter.

    That being said, his damage still needs to be low. You don't complain about a character's damage, and only his damage, when there's a lot more to a character's toolkit than that. His damage is supposed to be low because he brings a lot more. The highest amount of healing, the third hardest hero to hit, the easiest character to get environmental kills on, and a group-wide speed buff. his damage is low for all that. Nobody is complaining about Zenyatta having the lowest amount of healing, because his high damage (for a healer) makes up for it.

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  18. #78
    I think one of the reasons he is getting the damage boost is because he is now going to need to be in the group to be effective. This means he is going to need something to compensate for it to not just be the instant target and keep people from thinking they can just chase him around for the kill. I'm not saying he needs to be a powerhouse, but would be nice to give opponents something to think about when they are at 1/2 health and just follow him for an easy kill.
    He also can't duck in and out of walls and keep a constant stream of healing going into a player like Mercy and Zen can. As long as you don't stay LoS for longer than 2-3 seconds, you can keep healing a teammate while being safe behind cover.
    Maybe the damage will be to much at first, something that usually happens with Blizzard, but will be nice to give him some Ooomph when he's having to stay grouped with everyone else now to be effective with healing or speed boosts.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I'm still not sure why people place such a big focus on "dps", in a game where that is just an unnecessary thing to calculate. It's a shooter game, not an RPG. Lucio's burst damage is high, his sustained damage is not, due to his three-shot burst. People don't hit every single shot, not even kind of remotely close. Let's stop using RPG terms to describe a shooter.

    That being said, his damage still needs to be low. You don't complain about a character's damage, and only his damage, when there's a lot more to a character's toolkit than that. His damage is supposed to be low because he brings a lot more. The highest amount of healing, the third hardest hero to hit, the easiest character to get environmental kills on, and a group-wide speed buff. his damage is low for all that. Nobody is complaining about Zenyatta having the lowest amount of healing, because his high damage (for a healer) makes up for it.
    It is a way of discussing damage among characters that have different ways of dealing it and the term is common among all sorts of genres. With that said, you are insane if you think he has high burst damage prior to this increase. He has a burst of 4 shots that do 16 damage a piece. That is 64 damage if you land all four shots (which as you note, most people do not unless it is a stationary target). That is post nerf Ana levels IF you hit every shot. He will not top the healing meters after the change and honestly you are playing him wrong if you top the healing meters even now.

    I really don't care about your design philosophy for the character. I was simply responding to your claim that he does a lot of damage. He does not in any sense of the word.
    Last edited by Matchles; 2017-03-25 at 07:22 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Matchles View Post
    It is a way of discussing damage among characters that have different ways of dealing it and the term is common among all sorts of genres. With that said, you are insane if you think he has high burst damage prior to this increase. He has a burst of 4 shots that do 16 damage a piece. That is 64 damage if you land all four shots (which as you note, most people do not unless it is a stationary target). That is post nerf Ana levels IF you hit every shot. He will not top the healing meters after the change and honestly you are playing him wrong if you top the healing meters even now.

    I really don't care about your design philosophy for the character. I was simply responding to your claim that he does a lot of damage. He does not in any sense of the word.
    My point was increasing the projectile speed plus the damage would be too much of an increase, as his damage needs to stay low to compensate for the rest of his toolkit. I never said his burst was high, I was using that to explain why "DPS" was kind of irrelevant in this game.

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