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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaveil View Post
    Yes, I'm of the mind that my dinner was harder to prepare than WoW has ever been to play.

    Just consider this: it is nearly April now, think about how long you've had to make consistent progress on your artifact weapon. If you had been consistent, week in and week out with just playing the game as you normally would - completing challenging content to the best of your ability and downing your raid bosses and doing LFR, your weapon would be maxed. No doubt about it. And it would never have hindered your progress (skill notwithstanding).


    I'm not picking fights, just letting you know that the game is not grindier than its ever been. I can't speak for WoD and MoP but something must have changed in those 2 expansions and people have forgot what it was like before.
    The weapons needed to be maxed out a long time ago, not now. Again, the tier is almost over.
    Some classes have 3 specs as well.

    And you can hardly say that Wrath or Cata had any actual grinds. Some reps maybe but that was over fast. TBC had a bit more but the content was super easy back then and Vanilla was just mess in comparison.

    You are simply wrong here.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaCream View Post
    You obviously didn't play in TBC. You died a lot leveling up, some heroic dungeons wasn't even doable by most pugs and the raids could take months (yes months) to clear.
    Played all of it, never had any issues leveling and I rarely pugged anything (still don't). Never had much issues with the dungeons. When I said easy though, I was refering to the raids.

  3. #163
    Going to split this up;

    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    It's also one of the main weaknesses. Peole hate the grind and RNG, but what does Blizz do? More of both! Forcing people to do more of an already pointless grind isn't exactly the best way to bring back lost subs. But I guess there are always crazies who live just to show off how many hours they've grinded. I'm getting too old for that shit I guess.
    People have been crying since Wrath that we want (granted not all) more of the older elements that made up wow, such as how we used to have to grind in vin. Grind everything, from hours of killing one type of mob to advance one skill level in a prof, to having to spend hours, some people days just to gain a level before moving to the next zone.

    Then we had WoD, mass sub cancellations I myself for the first time in a decade (Although that was to do with 6.1 main highlight being fucking selfies) but others because there was nothing to do ingame but sit in garrisons, farm nodes, send out followers. People were crying out for more content, more things to do.

    In legion we have that, a combination of world quests and artifact progression is the way they get us out into the world. Now, if I can take you back another flash back, I'm sure you'll remember on this very site when artifacts were announced, there was a massive up roar about it. Two things were causing this, one, iconic weapons were coming back (notably the ashbringer) for the players to have, this annoyed some players as they had the original version (i.e. corrupted ash or windfury). The second reason was because we'd have a single weapon in the entire expansion. No more drops from bosses, no more getting that awesome one from end bosses which had a awesome x mog skin (e.g. blackhand). People were annoyed by, I include myself in this, I find there's nothing more satisfying loot wise than getting a new, bigger, more bad ass weapon. I lost my shit in ICC 25 on my lock when the Staff dropped from Deathwhisper. We don't get that in legion.

    Now at this point you can argue I'm making your argument for you, however, lets take the above mentality of the second opinion (no more drops, pissed people off, nothing to aim for etc). How do you think people would re act to finding out they completed their weapon before the first major content patch. Hell, some people before karazhan (I could be wrong, was it just before or just after?). People would bitch, bitch in the masses, it would happen.

    I do agree blizzard should have been more clear about how you do it, and possibly had a different system in place for upgrading the weapon. Off the top of my head, you could base it on dungeon completion, normal and heroic dungeons are x amount of normal traits, LFR first major trait, Normal second, Heroic third, Mythic 4th. But again, two issues, one people would be done quite quick and two some people wouldn't get full traits. I do think we have the best all around system for leveling the artifact, it just has flaws.

    But to sum up, we have to have some sort of progression system for the artifacts that's going to last the entire expansion. Blizz have said they didn't want anything like whats happening now, Maw runs constantly, and that's being stopped.

    [/QUOTE]On top of that, the artifact system takes completely away all the awesomeness of legendary weapons like the Ashbringer. It doesn't hurt those with made-up artifacts that were shat out of nowhere just to give an artifact for each spec. But weapons like the Ashbringer? Another piece of great lore ruined.[/QUOTE]

    I half agree with this, but at the same time I'm not fussed, I've said it on the forums before, when I play I consider myself the main character in the story, so naturally I do want everything. I would love to x mog the new corrupted ashbringer on to my DK, I'd love to x mog illidans glaives on to the DH, I'd love to x mog shadowmourne on to my 2h classes. Blizzard are right, if they did allow that, every tom dick and harry would be running around with it. But at the end of the day I really don't give a flying fuck what other people look like ingame. I focus on my characters only. This isn't to say I don't interact or act like a dick, I just really don't care if I walk into SW and see 50 2h classes all wearing a variation of ashbringer

  4. #164
    amount of effort required now for 34 to 54 i.e 15% damage, is it more when compared to the effort one needs to put to go from 34 to 38 (15% damage) when 7.2 hits?

  5. #165
    Scarab Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I quit as soon as I realized Blizzard was moving the finish line. Anyone else?
    lol. Had you not noticed the finish line has been moving since Vanilla? Or did you think it was still 60 and done?

    .~Felfaadaern Darkterror~.

  6. #166
    Your fault for burning to the end like an ocd kid.

    It's an mmo, you're going to grind, why rush it
    There is the sad paradox of a world which is more and more sensitive about being politically correct, almost to the point of ridicule, yet does not wish to acknowledge or to respect believers’ faith in God

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    The weapons needed to be maxed out a long time ago, not now. Again, the tier is almost over.
    Some classes have 3 specs as well.

    And you can hardly say that Wrath or Cata had any actual grinds. Some reps maybe but that was over fast. TBC had a bit more but the content was super easy back then and Vanilla was just mess in comparison.

    You are simply wrong here.
    They didn't need to be maxed out a long time ago, unless you think that the design intention is that mythic is able to be cleared as soon as it is released.

    It isn't. The intention is that the content lasts for a few months - not that the content becomes on farm after the first week.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaveil View Post
    They didn't need to be maxed out a long time ago, unless you think that the design intention is that mythic is able to be cleared as soon as it is released.

    It isn't. The intention is that the content lasts for a few months - not that the content becomes on farm after the first week.
    That would be fin, if that was the case.
    The design intention is to force players to spam dungeons in order to raid or simply complete the tier a year after release. None of thoes are any fun and it's a huge step back from what we have.

    Now, if you're fine in your HC raid, thats cool. I'm not.'
    Theres a reason many of the more hardcore guilds are leaving. It's just not fun anymore.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    That would be fin, if that was the case.
    The design intention is to force players to spam dungeons in order to raid or simply complete the tier a year after release. None of thoes are any fun and it's a huge step back from what we have.

    Now, if you're fine in your HC raid, thats cool. I'm not.'
    Theres a reason many of the more hardcore guilds are leaving. It's just not fun anymore.
    HC has been on farm since it was released bud, as I'm sure it was for you. You don't even need 30 traits for heroic.

    Mythic from Aluriel has been tuned around 54, but they always leave a comfortable amount of breathing room because of class imbalances and more importantly, skill handicap. They don't expect you to have robotic execution nor do they usually base encounters around you getting lucky with the RNG of the mechanics.

    Furthermore, the encounter is not tuned around the best gear in the game, it is tuned somewhere between base heroic and base mythic gear. So if you're rocking 900+ gear, you're pretty much over gearing the encounters at this point.

    And no, the intention is not to force or encourage players to spam dungeons, which is why in 7.2 they are making it far less lucrative to do so. Their failures to recognise that Skinner Box mechanics enslave their hardcore playerbase (like yourself, apparently) is an oversight that they are correcting and does not indicate intention. Unfortunately, players will just keep on playing over and over again to get even the most minuscule advantage in the "race" to down bosses.

    Personally, I think the "race" is a nuisance but sadly, it isn't ever going to go away. Blizzard could stop catering to that crowd and instead treat them with antipathy but their "everyone should be happy and included" approach won't let that happen.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazz17 View Post
    There is no "reset". You stay as powerful as you were (if you were at 54) or you get buffed (if below). You get the AP back to spend in a different place (the new traits). Nothing gets reset.
    Whoa right there. So you are saying that people who were lazy and did not max out their weapon at 54 will be brought up equal to those who did?
    How is that even remotely the right thing to do?
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Whoa right there. So you are saying that people who were lazy and did not max out their weapon at 54 will be brought up equal to those who did?
    How is that even remotely the right thing to do?
    Yep that's what's happening. A freshly geared character will automatically have the +15% damage or whatever it is in 7.2.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Factually incorrect... please be rational.

    There was no requirement ever to repeatedly kill the same thing over and over again hundreds and thousands of times to get AP.

    All you had to do was play the game naturally, with a variety of things and AP just fell into your lap at increasing rates.
    you are just playing word games now. it absolutely was a grind to complete 54 points prior to nighthold.
    you had to do EVERY ap quest available and run some mythic plus dungeons repeatedly to augment that.
    it was absolutely a grind just not the same identical mob killed repeatedly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazz17 View Post
    Yep that's what's happening. A freshly geared character will automatically have the +15% damage or whatever it is in 7.2.
    well that is pretty silly
    if everyone has it why does it exist at all?
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  13. #173
    well that is pretty silly
    if everyone has it why does it exist at all?[/QUOTE]

    They're technically removing it and giving everyone the AP they put in back for the new traits. So people at 34 will get +15% damage or so, but be behind in terms of getting the next traits

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I quit as soon as I realized Blizzard was moving the finish line. Anyone else?
    Considering you follow and post on a WoW fansite you're pretty ignorant to information regarding your artifact weapon. Blizzard said from Blizzcon that artifact weapons will be a continuous grind throughout the entirety of the expansion. The fact you're going to quit over them adding to the artifact system just shows you're not really up to date with your knowledge about the systems.

    Quitting is a complete over-reaction if that's the path you want to take. Grinding AP is something you do passively, it's also something you will do over the course of regularly playing a character. In short - It's not the end of the world.
    Diablo 3 content over at: www.youtube.com/Nmitty

  15. #175
    Did you not watch Blizz-con? They said that the artifact weapons would be upgraded and used all expansion. That doesn't mean zerg in the first month and then you're done with it for the expansion. It was and is meant as something to be in constant change throughout the expansion. I would think the only ones miffed and should be only slightly are mythic progression guilds. They'd be the ones that felt "forced" to max out their weapons. They really shouldn't though as those that haven't maxed them out will only get a slight amount of AP back whereas they will get back a lot more and instantly be able to put more of the new points in the weapon thus keeping them higher than those that haven't. I mean the odds are they'll have enough for a few of the new points right off the bat while the rest will have a bigger grind just to get to that first new point.

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