Runaway New Zealand sniffer dog shot at Auckland airport

[Crissi]

So is shooting it with a deadly gun. You have to hit it with both. Don't have hitscan IRL. It would've taken about the same amount of time had they been less derp and just called them up early. But I guess a single cartridge and a new dog is cheaper than a dart.

Except tranqs don't take effect immediately (from my experience in zoos, its another 10 - 20 minutes or so. Longer in large animals). A bullet can put a small animal down immediately if it hits the right place, or at least hamper it until people can get close . A dog wandering around freaked out under tranqs is just going to cause more issues. Especially if the tranq doesnt actually go in an only nicks the skin.

[Halyon]

Except tranqs don't take effect immediately (from my experience in zoos, its another 10 - 20 minutes or so. Longer in large animals). A bullet can put a small animal down immediately if it hits the right place, or at least hamper it until people can get close . A dog wandering around freaked out under tranqs is just going to cause more issues. Especially if the tranq doesnt actually go in an only nicks the skin.

If you don't hit it properly, it'll bleed to death, and be even more freaked out, running around bleeding until it dies. It'd be easier to track, but it's fucking cruel. Which is pretty scummy to do. So if you can take the shot with a gun, you can take it with a tranq. gun, wait the time it takes for it to take effect and get it off the area to recoup.

And we are still talking a 10 month old puppy, not a horse.

[Deathquoi]

So is shooting it with a deadly gun. You have to hit it with both. Don't have hitscan IRL. It would've taken about the same amount of time had they been less derp and just called them up early. But I guess a single cartridge and a new dog is cheaper than a dart.

Muzzle velocity for a tranquilizer air rifle is much lower (by like 2/3s) than a gun. So it's much easier to hit a target with a gun than a tranq rifle.

[Puupi]

Muzzle velocity for a tranquilizer air rifle is much lower (by like 2/3s) than a gun. So it's much easier to hit a target with a gun than a tranq rifle.

Have you seen someone/something actively dodge a tranquilizer shot? If the target isn't in constant movement, hitting with tranq or normal rifle is no different.

[Crissi]

If you don't hit it properly, it'll bleed to death, and be even more freaked out, running around bleeding until it dies. It'd be easier to track, but it's fucking cruel. Which is pretty scummy to do. So if you can take the shot with a gun, you can take it with a tranq. gun, wait the time it takes for it to take effect and get it off the area to recoup.

And we are still talking a 10 month old puppy, not a horse.

Difference being, unless the bullet shot was superficial (lower likelihood of this vs tranq dart), it'll be greatly hampered after being shot and thus catchable. Not so much with a tranq that takes time to work and has a higher likelihood of not even working properly the 1st time.

Either way, I think this was the preferable outcome. i dont think 1 animal unfortunately getting killed (or hobbling around til it dies) outweighs delaying hundreds of poeple / a few flights and the potential safety risk it posed for landing airplanes.

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Have you seen someone/something actively dodge a tranquilizer shot? If the target isn't in constant movement, hitting with tranq or normal rifle is no different.

a freaked dog is in constant movement unless it is cornered or found a place to hide though...

[Halyon]

Muzzle velocity for a tranquilizer air rifle is much lower (by like 2/3s) than a gun. So it's much easier to hit a target with a gun than a tranq rifle.

Also a heck of a lot louder.

[Deathquoi]

Have you seen someone/something actively dodge a tranquilizer shot? If the target isn't in constant movement, hitting with tranq or normal rifle is no different.

This is idiotic. A shot can miss a target without the target actively trying to dodge. Terrible argument by you.

[Crissi]

This is idiotic. A shot can miss a target without the target actively trying to dodge. Terrible argument by you.

I've seen a tranq miss in a stationary animal during daytime >.>

Miss also encompasses hitting the animal but the tranq doesn't go in so basically useless

[Activi-T]

20 mins there, 20 mins back. Potentially 100s of people dead. Good call mate. Glad you are head of security.

"Mr Richards said a "massive effort" was launched to locate the dog in pitch black conditions, and for the first two hours Grizz could not be found"

Good reading skills their mate. Glad you're not a school teacher.

[Halyon]

That's not how tranq guns work. They don't typically carry puppy sized doses.

You don't have automatic doses lying around, you measure doses carefully for each target. The handler will know the details for it's weight, so it should not be an issue measuring up the proper dose for the dog...

I mean sure, I don't know how much it costs in holding up an airport, but it can't be pocket change, however, I still think it was a very negligent thinking by the people involved to not just call the nearby zoo for a trank gun, possibly a handler who's skilled at using it to dart the dog, wait for it to take effect, and not have to kill it. A service dog costs money as well.

[AeneasBK]

At 10 mo isn't it still a puppy really?

[Halyon]

At 10 mo isn't it still a puppy really?

It is. Most dogs aren't fully mature until they're 2 years old...but puppy-age is over when it's a year old, so it was an older pup.

[Moratori]

It's just a dog. Nothing to get so riled up over.

[Halyon]

That's just it, they know what doses to use on Zoo animals based on weight. The amount you use on a dog isn't something they're going to be familiar with as it's not something that is typically done(I've never heard of an instance of a dog being tranq'd). Like I said, you don't really know how tranq guns work.

...Wheather the animal is from Africa or not doesn't make a difference in dosage based on body-weight...unless you want to tell me that tranquilizer darts are speciesists.

[Celista]

Ridiculous. Auckland is a large enough that I'm sure they could have acquired tranquilizers from a nearby veterinary office. Or a zoo. Sniffer dogs are a huge financial investment due to the inherent cost of training and finding a dog with a suitable temperament for sniffing work, beyond the needless loss of life it is a needless financial loss.

Dog people are the worst people.

I'm immediately suspicious of people who don't like dogs. Especially when they bitch about them needlessly and incessantly in threads about dogs.

[Alopex]

...Wheather the animal is from Africa or not doesn't make a difference in dosage based on body-weight...unless you want to tell me that tranquilizer darts are speciesists.

A quick google search tells me that yes, "they are"

1. Estimated weight of the animal. If the weight of the animal is estimated in pounds (lbs), it should be converted to kilograms (kg), as dosages are expressed in mg/kg (milligram of drug per kilogram of body weight) required to produce immobilization. One lb equals .454 kg, and the conversion is made by multiplying the estimated lbs by .454. Thus a 100 lb animal weighs 45.4 kg. Since 1.0 lb is almost equal to 1/2 kg, a simpler conversion can be made by dividing the estimated weight in lbs by 2. By this method the 100 lb animal weighs 50 kg. Because of the difficulty in accurately estimating the weight of an animal and the safety margin of the CNS drugs, this simpler conversion is acceptable for fieldwork.

2. The dosage recommended for the species. This is the dosage recommended to produce immobilization in a particular species. Dosage recommendations may be provided by a veterinarian, by the drug package insert, or by consulting dosage tables in reference literature. The suggested dosage tables are given in mg/kg (milligram of drug per kilogram of body weight.)

3. Concentration of the drug used. The concentration (solution strength) of the drug is listed on the label of the vial, on the package, and in the package insert. It is given as mg/ml (milligram of drug per milliliter of liquid volume). To minimize the drug volume, and consequent size of the RDD Device, the highest available concentration of a given drug should be used.

[Celista]

That's just it, they know what doses to use on Zoo animals based on weight. The amount you use on a dog isn't something they're going to be familiar with as it's not something that is typically done(I've never heard of an instance of a dog being tranq'd). Like I said, you don't really know how tranq guns work.

It's not rocket science, it's based on weight and a quick call to a veterinary office would have likely yielded the answers they needed. Auckland isn't a backwards hick town, it's a city with a little over 1mil population.

[Heladys]

Why do people assume that in every situation there are tranquilizer guns readily available?

Because in locales where animal control is a responsibility - chief among them zoos (Harambe!) and airports (many birds and animals causing risk) it is a basic common sense approach to be prepared.

If you have enough light to shoot a gun you have enough light to shoot a tranquilizer.

[Celista]

A quick google search tells me that yes, "they are"

Dosage recommendations may be provided by a veterinarian, by the drug package insert, or by consulting dosage tables in reference literature.

Gee that seems like it would have been so terribly difficult.

[Celista]

When my dog was younger he always would run out when the door opened, and sometimes he would get close to the Military airfield. I was told by the MPs that they could shoot him if he wondered onto it.

It really scared me, which promoted me to buy a shock collar that day to train him to not run off and come when called. It worked really well, and only took me shocking him one time to get the point. 11 years later, and he hasn't ran off since.

I'm not a huge fan of shock collars, I got my dog an anti-bark collar that would spray citronella in the air when she barked...she's normally quiet but would do the typical dog thing and go apeshit when people would ring the doorbell. Started shaking after wearing it a few times, I tested it on myself to see if it was malfunctioning. Shock collars can malfunction and cause serious burns...

Overall though I think more people should consider using them, especially in situations like you described. It can be an effective training tool.

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It's based on weight as well as things like adrenaline levels. An excited elephant takes twice the dose a docile elephant does. How much does an excited puppy need? It's not nearly as easy to calculate. And since vets don't use the same medication to tranquilize their patients... yeah.

Hey guess what a quick phone call to a veterinarian would have sorted that out. My point stands. And yes, veterinarians are trained in tranquilizer usage.