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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    Well, it's kind of the same now: You can participate, but won't be top DPS. Depending on your class/spec, you will still be firm in the middle. After 1-2 weeks of doing the regular farm routine, including quite a few m+10s and higher, you will be easily at trait 40 or so. Gear still comes from guild carrying you for 1-2 weeks. Legendaries are still RNG, but the BIS and non-BIS have already come closer together and will even more so later this week when 7.2 hits.

    Even before 7.2, at 40 traits, with medium leggies and somewhat caught-up gear, you would probably do a base 10-15% worse than one with full arti and BIS leggies. Given that every class/spec has quite some RNG in their performance nowadays, this can be worse or only 8% if you're lucky and someone else isnt.

    Overall: You're still in the same situation as for those 12+ years you quoted, you just have to put more personal effort in, instead of "just" having your guild carry you. Which seems fair enough for me.
    This.

    And I don't get why people can't see this. And in 7.2 this is even easier, and that launches tomorrow

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    Overall: You're still in the same situation as for those 12+ years you quoted, you just have to put more personal effort in, instead of "just" having your guild carry you. Which seems fair enough for me.
    But he wants to do mythic content while playing like it's lfr, because he has good buddies who carry him... so he can brag about his nonexistant skill. "It's supposed to be that way, this is bs, moooooom tell them!"

  3. #263
    10% damage is fuck all. If you have a good raid, one person doing slightly less than max damage is fine. If your mate is so good he'll make up for it by not standing in shit.

    Besides the rest of the gearing process is easier than its ever been, he'll have BIS trinkets, some kind of legendary with retarded ilvl, 4 piece and crazy proc 2 sets from dungeons.

    Buck up cry face, it ain't so bad.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Expecting to immediately join the absolute top-end players in hardcode activities after mere days is entirely unrealistic.
    Eh... it is unrealistic in Legion but not in previous expansions. Previous expansions you could get geared pretty damned fast and be ready to join the top-end within 2 full clears generally (excluding vanilla). I fully cleared ulduar back in the day then quit for a while after that. When I came back at the end of the expansion I swapped to another class and my guildmates geared me up pretty quick and I was raiding well with them again. There is a lot you need to do in Legion if you are starting fresh.

    That said, it is personal opinion on which is a better way. You can argue until you are blue in the face but it is opinion and not fact that you argue.

  5. #265
    Catch-up mechanisms at 7.2 are in a good shape to fix all of these concerns, so, i'm happy with it.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post

    Overall: You're still in the same situation as for those 12+ years you quoted, you just have to put more personal effort in, instead of "just" having your guild carry you. Which seems fair enough for me.
    You disagree and agree in the same sentence? Yes you can, with ALOT more hours of work....especially with a returning player with 0 AK....which makes the pool smaller and smaller and smaller.

    They have been moving towards more casual for years but this grind is in the opposite direction and it is putting up a wall. My gut tells me the majority of wow players play then quit then play then quit.

    And that is the crutch of the situation. Blizzard wants to limit the quit and play and quit and play. It is one of the reason they started to talk about "hours played" to stakeholders.

    It is why the game has become more "grindy".

    but...me gut ...is telling me people are still going to quit and play and quit again but it might be between xpacs and not patched. This is a issue in the long run.

  7. #267
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    You disagree and agree in the same sentence? Yes you can, with ALOT more hours of work....especially with a returning player with 0 AK....which makes the pool smaller and smaller and smaller.

    They have been moving towards more casual for years but this grind is in the opposite direction and it is putting up a wall. My gut tells me the majority of wow players play then quit then play then quit.

    And that is the crutch of the situation. Blizzard wants to limit the quit and play and quit and play. It is one of the reason they started to talk about "hours played" to stakeholders.

    It is why the game has become more "grindy".

    but...me gut ...is telling me people are still going to quit and play and quit again but it might be between xpacs and not patched. This is a issue in the long run.
    Well, then I guess they will either have to accept that they are behind for a while or they will continue to come to forums to whine.

    BTW, I did not disagree and agree. It IS the same situation just moved from others doing the effort to you yourself doing the work.

    Lastly: NOONE starts with 0AK for the last months now: You can instantly buy AK 15 even if you don't have any other characters. If you have a character that you at least bothered to do the research, you can instantly buy up to AK 20.

    7.2 launched today where you can instantly buy up to AK 25, independent anyway. Then do the quest that also instantly gives you AK 26. That's 100.000% increased AP. So basically 1.2M AP from doing 1(!!) longer m+10. Or 320k for doing 1 blue WQ.

  8. #268
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So it'll take you about 5 weeks to be properly ready starting from fresh? I guess that seems like a lot in the "now now NOW!" age ^_^
    Well it seems like a lot compared to say TBC. I was in charge of gearing new recruits in TBC. Back then this meant running the previous raid tier. I tried to have one new recruit of each armor class and generally with crafted gear a new recruit was ready in 3-4 week depending on luck.

    If someone was unlucky we would bring him to the progress raids for the earlier bosses to give an extra chance at loot before replacing them at the actual progress boss.

    We've never needed more than 4 weeks in TBC through WoD to gear a new player. Now it should be even easier with Mythic+, but the legendary and artifacts systems are frustrating.

    I've been raiding since the opening of the first raid with 2 weeks of vacation as my only break. I've got no legendary for my offspec as I dare not set my lootspec to anything but my main spec. Why? Because as of now I have the 4 worst legendaries for my mainspec, the top 3 have yet to drop! Others in the guild who play all day every day have all of them and even others like me with jobs and other responsibilities have more than me and at least gotten one good legendary.

    I'm completely fed up with this system. Blizzards only saving grace at this moment is that 7.2 makes bad luck protection spec specific and two of my legendaries have gotten boosts making them not suck so much. Which will make me very happy once the game actually decides to drop my tier tokens :X. I need one for the 4pc bonus and 2 tokens to be able to use one of those not so crappy anymore legendaries in place of the still crappy legendary.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    Well, then I guess they will either have to accept that they are behind for a while or they will continue to come to forums to whine.

    BTW, I did not disagree and agree. It IS the same situation just moved from others doing the effort to you yourself doing the work.

    Lastly: NOONE starts with 0AK for the last months now: You can instantly buy AK 15 even if you don't have any other characters. If you have a character that you at least bothered to do the research, you can instantly buy up to AK 20.

    7.2 launched today where you can instantly buy up to AK 25, independent anyway. Then do the quest that also instantly gives you AK 26. That's 100.000% increased AP. So basically 1.2M AP from doing 1(!!) longer m+10. Or 320k for doing 1 blue WQ.


    as i said in a previous post, blizzard has noticed the issued and 7.2 corrects it....but when ToS opens....which i am assume late June/early July (cause you know vacation and karma works like that) and someone then joins the game....the "catch up" mechanics will be to little again.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    as i said in a previous post, blizzard has noticed the issued and 7.2 corrects it....but when ToS opens....which i am assume late June/early July (cause you know vacation and karma works like that) and someone then joins the game....the "catch up" mechanics will be to little again.
    It won't be that bad because when those return, and get instant 25(26) they get the biggest traits almost instantly(10+5%) then work towards the new traits from 7.2. And since they changed the last "paragon" to a proc-based ability it will count for less. When they return getting proper gear will most likely be harder(not that it is hard to get loot either).

    They are making some improvements in 7.2 wich will make these small issues almost go away, but then again, a returning player will always be behind a little while.

  11. #271
    I killed krosus on a 884 39 trait ret pala not sure what people think is hard about this bosses dps check, you just cant have people die.....

  12. #272
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoyt View Post
    I killed krosus on a 884 39 trait ret pala not sure what people think is hard about this bosses dps check, you just cant have people die.....
    circumstance 1: it wasnt mythic
    circumstance 2: you got boosted by your people
    circumstance 3: you have paid for

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by elprofessor View Post
    circumstance 1: it wasnt mythic
    circumstance 2: you got boosted by your people
    circumstance 3: you have paid for
    6 of the dps under 600k but the circumstance it was an alt raid i wasn't meant to be there they just had 19 without me

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    why should you be on par with people who played alot more when you just came back
    This.

    People have been asking for this for a long time now. Someone who hasn't played the game and just started shouldn't be nearly as powerful as someone whose been playing since launch.

    It's completely fair. It's something the community has been complaining about forever.

  15. #275
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    This.
    Why should you ever to be behind to the point that you can't attempt only good content in this game?

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoy-o-tron View Post
    Why should you ever to be behind to the point that you can't attempt only good content in this game?
    I don't remember a time where you could not play, then one day decide you want to, log on and be ready for the hardest content in the game.

    It wasn't like that in Vanilla, BC, wrath or MoP. (I don't really remember cata raiding that well and WOD was the only expac where you could).

    Notice something? The one expac you could log on and be mythic ready within a few days (WoD) was the expac that was hated by most of the community. Why? Because it meant there was nothing to do aside from raid or pvp since you practically had to do nothing to keep up with the raiding or pvp scene.

    Now you actually have to play the game (OMG!!!) and keep current in order to mythic raid or be taken to harder content. You're basically complaining about having to actually participate and play the game in order to do mythic raiding.

    It boils down to this: If you wanna mythic raid then play the game. There's plenty of catch up mechanics so you aren't that far behind (can get 35 traits fairly quick, first 2 legendaries are faster to get, etc). If you don't want to do that then don't, but complaining that you actually have to play the game in order to do the hard content is outright stupid, especially when WOD didn't require you to play practically at all in order to mythic raid and it was hated by tons and tons of people for that exact reason: there was nothing to do.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2017-03-30 at 07:25 AM.

  17. #277
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    I don't remember a time where you could not play, then one day decide you want to, log on and be ready for the hardest content in the game.
    How bad are you at reading? There's an example on exact page you were replying on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aybar View Post
    Well it seems like a lot compared to say TBC. I was in charge of gearing new recruits in TBC. Back then this meant running the previous raid tier. I tried to have one new recruit of each armor class and generally with crafted gear a new recruit was ready in 3-4 week depending on luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    hated by tons
    But not by raiders. WoD had great raids.

    Also actual progression path isn't current locking out by repeating same content that requires zero skill but at 10x rate.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoy-o-tron View Post
    How bad are you at reading? There's an example on exact page you were replying on.




    But not by raiders. WoD had great raids.

    Also actual progression path isn't current locking out by repeating same content that requires zero skill but at 10x rate.
    Did you not read that guys post that you quoted? It took him 3-4 weeks to get someone raid ready for the current tier.

    That's basically the exact same amount of time it takes someone to be mythic raid ready right now in legion. You can't get free 890 gear from nethershards, you can have guildies carrying you through M+ for insane amounts of AP, etc.

    The guys post your using to attempt to make your point said 3-4 weeks until raid ready. If you think it takes that long in legion that's laughable.

    That's funny. I didn't say the raids were bad. You don't even know what we're talking about. WoD was absolutely hated by raiders because it took no time at all to be raid ready. The raids themselves were great, sure, but were talking about preparation/catch up, not the actual raids. Try following the discussion before responding. The raids were the only good thing about WoD, however it took no effort at all to get caught up and took about 3-4 days.

    I took a break before BRF, came back and was ready for mythic in 3-4 days. That's retarded and I'm glad it's not like that in legion, wasn't like that in any other expac either. Took 3-4 weeks in BC as the guy you quoted stated. Takes about 2 weeks in legion as well under the same scenario (having guildies).
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2017-03-30 at 06:49 PM.

  19. #279
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Did you not read that guys post that you quoted? It took him 3-4 weeks to get someone raid ready for the current tier.
    Yes, but it involved doing actual progression both as person and his character. Current progression person makes you progress your character on mindless stuff before you are even allowed to touch good content. More boring, more unfun, more punishing and longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    WoD was absolutely hated by raiders
    If you call LFR warriors raiders then yes. But they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    hated by raiders because it took no time at all to be raid ready
    What kind of comment is this? It completely contradicts with logic. You don't waste your time on boring stuff and get to do fun part right away. And you are even allowed to play alts. It's perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    That's retarded
    No, it's great. Only insane would wish to play a monkey before being able to enjoy good part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Takes about 2 weeks
    It doesn't? Even if you catch up with AP in two weeks you won't have good enough pool of legendaries to choose. Current active player has at least 10 and is allowed to gather them for another spec. Then there's gear too. This player would be allowed to be carried on farm bosses, but won't be used on progression. And there's ToS soon. Same issues.
    Last edited by mmoc879de04abd; 2017-03-30 at 08:05 PM.

  20. #280
    Can you close this thread already? It's going nowhere, this kid ain't gonna learn a thing and it just pisses normal people off.

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