What do you think of the whole Jontron kerfuffle?

[derpkitteh]

Nobody wants to live in Africa. And South Africa, when it defeated apartheid, made an example the rest of the world could only dare to live up to: it pushed for public Reconciliation with the Afrikaaners who still lived there, and welcomed them as fellow citizens. Is it all sunshine and rainbows there? Nope, but they made a conscious effort.

oh, i'd never move to africa.

i just don't think this whole artificial diversification is a good thing. just let it all happen naturally. if things get more diverse, who gives a shit, it's the least important thing there is. the only people that care about this stuff enough to push against or for it are either redneck idiots scared some black dude will fuck a white girl or far left idiots that are probably racist against whites.

[Barnabas]

I think he is correct that americans should just be called americans and that americans should drop the pervasive racist bullshit that has become a norm.

[derpkitteh]

i do think he definitely needs to apologize for that statement about the "richest black person". that's just not fucking cool.

[Macaquerie]

oh, i'd never move to africa.

i just don't think this whole artificial diversification is a good thing. just let it all happen naturally. if things get more diverse, who gives a shit, it's the least important thing there is. the only people that care about this stuff enough to push against or for it are either redneck idiots scared some black dude will fuck a white girl or far left idiots that are probably racist against whites.

The only time diversification is "artificial" is when people are moved around against their will, such as during the slave trade. But when you have people migrating to seek out opportunities, what could be more natural than that? Borders and nation-states are the artificial constructs.

[derpkitteh]

The only time diversification is "artificial" is when people are moved around against their will, such as during the slave trade. But when you have people migrating to seek out opportunities, what could be more natural than that? Borders and nation-states are the artificial constructs.

i just mean the people calling for more and more diversification. like, just shut up about wanting more or less. just let it be what it'll be, and everyone will turn out fine.

it'd be nice if people could start seeing race less and less. that's another thing that kinda annoys me about people on the left. so many of them act like blacks have to be this entirely alien thing to white people, when we're both just humans. you hear a lot of shit about some blacks getting shit for not being "black enough". it's annoying, it's all fucking annoying. we all need to just get the fuck along and move on to the important shit, like space and cancer cures.

[eschatological]

oh, i'd never move to africa.

i just don't think this whole artificial diversification is a good thing. just let it all happen naturally. if things get more diverse, who gives a shit, it's the least important thing there is. the only people that care about this stuff enough to push against or for it are either redneck idiots scared some black dude will fuck a white girl or far left idiots that are probably racist against whites.

It has to happen somewhat artificially, or it won't happen at all. That's the point. I think this latest election proved there's enough white people who think they're superior to people of color to make a difference.

Now, I'm not white, but I'm pretty well integrated. English is my first (and really only, unless you count high school Spanish) language. A lot of that had to do with religion, we were at Mass every week, and people accept people of the same faith fairly readily. I don't call myself an Indian-American, I consider myself an American (a point JonTron said he wants to see in the U.S.).

The problem is: the groups who tend to identify themselves by ethnicity or some other identifier, do it as a matter of reclaiming (on a sociological level) the term which was once considered offensive. Indians like myself integrated well because our group wasn't oppressed when we came here, even though we range from taxi drivers to doctors and governors. But every group that does identify like that does so because that's how they were once identified. Look at all the self-identifying movements: Gay pride, Irish pride, Italian pride, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, African Americans. They were all oppressed, and now identify with their group for solidarity and to reclaim it. It's much like how young black men call each other "nigga", to reclaim a vile word once (and occasionally still) slung at them. Hell, "Yankee" was originally a slur aimed at American colonists, and they reclaimed it too. It's simple sociology. You have to have pride in who and what you are before you can assimilate into a larger society.

Every time someone says, "I'm just an American, not a XXXX-American," it's usually because they're separated from any oppression of that group. The English Americans weren't oppressed when they came here, hell, they founded the country. Same with the German-Americans, who largely fled here after WW2. Etc, etc, and so on, and so forth.

Ironically, my ethnic group is now starting to call itself "Indian Americans" more and more often, and it coincides sharply with white people shooting Indians because they think they're Arabs and/or Muslims. There was a spike of that after 9/11, and it's happening again now.

[Requimortem]

I think he's in the right but he's a coward for apologizing. People need to stand by their opinions no matter how damning they may be.

[Endus]

i agree with that one thing he said, that it's never really non-white nations that get shit on for having a native majority. japan is the only one that ever gets shit for it.

you don't see anyone calling for the diversification of africa.

Largely because those countries aren't opposing immigration in the first place, really.

oh, i'd never move to africa.

i just don't think this whole artificial diversification is a good thing. just let it all happen naturally. if things get more diverse, who gives a shit, it's the least important thing there is. the only people that care about this stuff enough to push against or for it are either redneck idiots scared some black dude will fuck a white girl or far left idiots that are probably racist against whites.

The only way it would be "artificial diversification" is if people were being imported and forcibly made into citizens, and barred from leaving, against their will. The entire issue is that people are opposing it "happening naturally" because the people immigrating are the "wrong" color/religion/culture/whatever.

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I said this one and i will say it again: My biggest problem with the current state of PC culture is that jokes and mistakes are treated with the same level of cold calculated swift justice as actual cases of isms and tangible bad things.

Largely because, to society's credit, the more heinous stuff is more rare and enjoys far less social support than it used to, already.

Those more minor forms of prejudice aren't automatically "okay", and are based in irrational hate the same way the more overt stuff is, just not phrased as viciously. So when there's not more vicious forms to point out and oppose, they'll work on the less critical stuff.

Same way an ER doctor will focus on the people with sucking chest wounds and heart attacks, but if there isn't anyone critical, he's gonna work on the people with sprained pinky toes too, even if that's a pretty minor thing.

Also, you're pretty boldly overstating the "cold calculated swift justice". It mostly boils down to a lot of people saying "geeze, racist much?" or the like. It's not like we have unruly mobs beating down the doors for the most part.

[Nelaphim-EX]

Nobody wants to live in Africa. And South Africa, when it defeated apartheid, made an example the rest of the world could only dare to live up to: it pushed for public Reconciliation with the Afrikaaners who still lived there, and welcomed them as fellow citizens. Is it all sunshine and rainbows there? Nope, but they made a conscious effort.

You need to look up what has happened to the 'white' or European population of South Africa if you think it is an example of what the world should strive towards. 1/5 of the white population has fled the country due to being persecuted by the rest of their countrymen and abused by the government. And they are not just fleeing back to 'white countries', many of the Afrikaaners have moved to other African countries after repeated and brutal farm attacks by predominantly native population.

And it is not just the 'white' population fleeing. They are suffering a severe brain drain situation, where anyone with the means and education to do so if leaving the country.

(Note: The Apartheid era was disgusting and the way the native population was often treated was horrific, but to even imply that things are better under a conscious effort is a falsehood.)

[derpkitteh]

It has to happen somewhat artificially, or it won't happen at all. That's the point. I think this latest election proved there's enough white people who think they're superior to people of color to make a difference.

Now, I'm not white, but I'm pretty well integrated. English is my first (and really only, unless you count high school Spanish) language. A lot of that had to do with religion, we were at Mass every week, and people accept people of the same faith fairly readily. I don't call myself an Indian-American, I consider myself an American (a point JonTron said he wants to see in the U.S.).

The problem is: the groups who tend to identify themselves by ethnicity or some other identifier, do it as a matter of reclaiming (on a sociological level) the term which was once considered offensive. Indians like myself integrated well because our group wasn't oppressed when we came here, even though we range from taxi drivers to doctors and governors. But every group that does identify like that does so because that's how they were once identified. Look at all the self-identifying movements: Gay pride, Irish pride, Italian pride, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, African Americans. They were all oppressed, and now identify with their group for solidarity and to reclaim it. It's much like how young black men call each other "nigga", to reclaim a vile word once (and occasionally still) slung at them. Hell, "Yankee" was originally a slur aimed at American colonists, and they reclaimed it too. It's simple sociology. You have to have pride in who and what you are before you can assimilate into a larger society.

Every time someone says, "I'm just an American, not a XXXX-American," it's usually because they're separated from any oppression of that group. The English Americans weren't oppressed when they came here, hell, they founded the country. Same with the German-Americans, who largely fled here after WW2. Etc, etc, and so on, and so forth.

Ironically, my ethnic group is now starting to call itself "Indian Americans" more and more often, and it coincides sharply with white people shooting Indians because they think they're Arabs and/or Muslims. There was a spike of that after 9/11, and it's happening again now.

i'm actually mostly italian with a bit of native american, german, and irish, and i've never felt any form of oppression or anything. i mean, i'm olive skinned, and i've only ever encountered racism once and it was from a black guy that was very not keen on whites, the brother of a close highschool friend.

i do agree, there's been a bit of a resurgence lately of some negative ideals. but i don't believe that's the way of the future at all.

i just don't understand the need for a racial pride. i don't feel prideful of my native or italian, or irish ancestry. it's just a fact of who i am. who i am as a person isn't my dna, it's my personality, the things i'm interested in. i'm proud that i'm a gamer, i'm proud that i like metal music and like cartoons and anime. my personality and my likes and desires are just more important than anything else.

i mean, it's kinda cool to think i might be related to someone from the roman empire, or some crazy blackfoot warrior, or might be funny to think i might be related to a nazi. but that's as far as i go into caring about my ancestry, "oh, that's neat".

[Pendulous]

Big fan of Game Grumps, but if you paid a lot of attention in the early days, you could see he had some...issues. Used a lot of racial slurs, and it got annoying.

In any case, isn't his parents, like, 100% not-American? How can he speak anti-immigrants when he basically is one?

[Macaquerie]

It has to happen somewhat artificially, or it won't happen at all. That's the point. I think this latest election proved there's enough white people who think they're superior to people of color to make a difference.

Now, I'm not white, but I'm pretty well integrated. English is my first (and really only, unless you count high school Spanish) language. A lot of that had to do with religion, we were at Mass every week, and people accept people of the same faith fairly readily. I don't call myself an Indian-American, I consider myself an American (a point JonTron said he wants to see in the U.S.).

The problem is: the groups who tend to identify themselves by ethnicity or some other identifier, do it as a matter of reclaiming (on a sociological level) the term which was once considered offensive. Indians like myself integrated well because our group wasn't oppressed when we came here, even though we range from taxi drivers to doctors and governors. But every group that does identify like that does so because that's how they were once identified. Look at all the self-identifying movements: Gay pride, Irish pride, Italian pride, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, African Americans. They were all oppressed, and now identify with their group for solidarity and to reclaim it. It's much like how young black men call each other "nigga", to reclaim a vile word once (and occasionally still) slung at them. Hell, "Yankee" was originally a slur aimed at American colonists, and they reclaimed it too. It's simple sociology. You have to have pride in who and what you are before you can assimilate into a larger society.

Every time someone says, "I'm just an American, not a XXXX-American," it's usually because they're separated from any oppression of that group. The English Americans weren't oppressed when they came here, hell, they founded the country. Same with the German-Americans, who largely fled here after WW2. Etc, etc, and so on, and so forth.

Ironically, my ethnic group is now starting to call itself "Indian Americans" more and more often, and it coincides sharply with white people shooting Indians because they think they're Arabs and/or Muslims. There was a spike of that after 9/11, and it's happening again now.

The problem with identifying solely as "American" is that for the vast majority of foreigners, that label refers to whites, and insisting that you are not Indian or Indian-American but an American first and only sounds awfully like you're trying too hard to be white, a la Bobby Jindal, Dinesh D'Souza, or other disreputable types.

[eschatological]

i'm actually mostly italian with a bit of native american, german, and irish, and i've never felt any form of oppression or anything. i mean, i'm olive skinned, and i've only ever encountered racism once and it was from a black guy that was very not keen on whites, the brother of a close highschool friend.

i do agree, there's been a bit of a resurgence lately of some negative ideals. but i don't believe that's the way of the future at all.

i just don't understand the need for a racial pride. i don't feel prideful of my native or italian, or irish ancestry. it's just a fact of who i am. who i am as a person isn't my dna, it's my personality, the things i'm interested in. i'm proud that i'm a gamer, i'm proud that i like metal music and like cartoons and anime. my personality and my likes and desires are just more important than anything else.

i mean, it's kinda cool to think i might be related to someone from the roman empire, or some crazy blackfoot warrior, or might be funny to think i might be related to a nazi. but that's as far as i go into caring about my ancestry, "oh, that's neat".

And that's fine - Italian and Irish Americans are largely integrated/assimilated now, and the people who denigrated those groups when they came to this country are viewed, historically (and rightfully so) as bigots. And now the same thing is happening again, and those same people should be still considered bigots. We didn't turn the irish and Italians away because they were poor and willing to take jobs no one else would. There certainly were people who wanted that - and they lost. And like I said, they're roundly viewed as historical bigots today. But when those groups did come - they brought the Mafia, they brought the Irish gangs. And so on and so forth. Do you think the Mafia died because law enforcement got better? Or because "This thing of ours" no longer had any real resonance?

[Super Kami Dende]

Meh, didn't really care. Nothing he said was really bad, most of it is people overreacting as usual.

[HumbleDuck]

I was shocked. Well, some Persians have racist world views, but Jon didn't seem to be one of them.
IMO, he is just naive, will probably come to his senses in a couple of years.

[Trassk]

My respect for hims grown in this, in that he can see past all the bullshit alt left rational at the problems with immigration. He isn't the sharpest tool in the box, but he's able to at least not conform to sjw 'logic', unlike Destiny.

That said, he was kind of all over the place, but I've not lost respect for him

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In any case, isn't his parents, like, 100% not-American? How can he speak anti-immigrants when he basically is one?

It isn't anti immigration, it's being against immigrants that flock to another nation and bring with them violence, hate for the country their moving to, and a barbaric system that goes against the principle of that new country's societal structure. Many immigrants just don't want to change and adapt into the country's way of life, they want to make the country they flock to into THEIR country.

And as we can see from Sweden with its no go zones, that doesn't work out to well

This is where the old phrase "can't see the wood for the trees" applies

[Sevyvia]

So for those that don't know popular youtuber Jontron had a discussion like six days ago with Destiny an ex-sc2 streamer from what I've been told. The topic was ethno-nationalism and other related topics. In the topic Jontron make some rather controversial statements, like insinuating black people are the problem and opposed immigration even if said immigrant fulky integrated because they might later on integrate to the gene pool.

If you look purely at the statistics in North America, black people -are- a problem group. Enormous crime compared to population count, for one thing. They attack people of other skin colors a lot more, and they attack each other even more than that. There are loads of other problems. This is not racist to point out, though obviously it depends on how it was pointed out. I'll be honest and say that I haven't watched, and won't watch, the videos, so maybe he said it in a weird way.

As for the gene pool stuff... That's a lot more controversial, but again, there is some basis for such a statement, depending on where the immigrants are from. So, certainly I'd consider it a conclusion you could make, though you'll have everyone who's purely wrapped up in their own emotions on your ass for it. https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

[Techno-Druid]

i agree with that one thing he said, that it's never really non-white nations that get shit on for having a native majority. japan is the only one that ever gets shit for it.

you don't see anyone calling for the diversification of africa.

also, jon's definitely white. he's of iranian descent, iranians are white. most of the middle east is white.

To be fair, certain countries are basically built off immigration to an extent (US, Canada, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, etc). It's obviously different than Europe which does have an established Indigenous majority.

[NED funded]

My respect for hims grown in this, in that he can see past all the bullshit alt left rational at the problems with immigration. He isn't the sharpest tool in the box, but he's able to at least not conform to sjw 'logic', unlike Destiny.

That said, he was kind of all over the place, but I've not lost respect for him

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It isn't anti immigration, it's being against immigrants that flock to another nation and bring with them violence, hate for the country their moving to, and a barbaric system that goes against the principle of that new country's societal structure. Many immigrants just don't want to change and adapt into the country's way of life, they want to make the country they flock to into THEIR country.

And as we can see from Sweden with its no go zones, that doesn't work out to well

This is where the old phrase "can't see the wood for the trees" applies

How is it not anti-immigration? He states that he opposes immigration even if said immigrants fully integrste to the native culture, because they might join the gene pool. BTW this referencing tk immigration from Mexico and other latin anerican countries

[Rudkobing]

And yet, somehow, I just can't seem to care.