Should the Pledge of Allegiance be removed from U.S. schools?

[Travis B]

For those who aren't familiar with it, the Pledge of Allegiance reads as follows:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Students in U.S. schools stand up and recite this together at the beginning of each school day. It is usually followed by a moment of silence.

Here are my arguments for why it should be removed:

1. Although students cannot be officially punished by the school (as far as I know) for refusing to stand and say it, the social pressures to say it are enormous. A student who refuses to say it risks being seen as unpatriotic or even hating their country. They may be ostracized or bullied by their peers, or even receive a lower grade than they deserve by a teacher who doesn't like their stance.

2. The fact that the pledge includes the phrase "under God" is discriminatory against atheist and agnostic students, as well as students who are of a polytheistic religion.

3. Every other pledge I've heard of, you say it once and that's it. What the hell kind of pledge do you have to say every day? Having to say the same thing over and over again causes it to lose meaning. Also, "with liberty and justice for all"? Does anyone really buy that bullshit?

4. It smacks of something the Hitler Youth would have done.

5. It is a waste of instructional time. The Pledge and moment of silence take about 30 seconds each day. Multiply that by 180 school days, and that's one and a half hours every year that could be spent learning.

[Spectral]

1. On the list of things I'm concerned about social castigation for, this ranks low.

2. Yeah, I used to make that argument as well because I'm an atheist, but it's really a pretty silly argument. It's also easily addressed by a simple change of the verbiage.

3. Sure. Liberty and justice are pretty rampant in the USA. Whether it's literally all or not is pretty questionable, but it's not half bad.

4. Literally Hitler? Literally?

5. I'm sure it would be spent in an incredibly valuable fashion if only they had that time back

Ultimately, I don't care, but I think your arguments are poor.

[NED funded]

1. And? If they don't feel patriotic just recite it automatically. I used to do that when it came to praying.

3. Really?

4.Wtf?

5. 30 seconds of a day is nothing. I'm sure kids and teachers waste more time doing other stuff.

[Powerogue]

I'd say cut it entirely, but really no matter what there's too many people who would be like "nooo we need our blatantly religious pledge of servitude to be pushed on kids who don't even know what half the words mean or they'll grow up to be evil commies or muslims or something!"

On roughly the same tier but less important, removing the 10 commandments from courthouses (I don't know how they ever rationalized that) and "in god we trust" off the money. Again, religious people would go "nooo why are you trampling on our right to impose our religion through the government?!" so I don't know if that'll ever actually happen.

[Calfredd]

I could see an argument for removing "under God" but the line was added 12 years after Congress made the Pledge official so you can't really argue that the original was around longer than the current one.

[JohnBrown1917]

1. And? If they don't feel patriotic just recite it automatically. I used to do that when it came to praying. .

I'd argue that is part of the problem, but 'murica gonna 'murica.

[Templar 331]

Remove it.

If you are proud of this country then be proud but don't make everyone else show it with a daily ceremony. And yes you are made to perform this every day while in school or face being ostracized. When I was in school you could be punished for not standing for the pledge.

[Ghaleon]

No keep it but dedicate some time teaching the kids what it means. So they understand it and it's not just something they have to do.

[PC2]

I think the public school itself should have some type of oath that they exist to benefit the US. As long as they are receiving money from US tax payers.

A verbal pledge every day does seem a bit annoying though, I think it was done once a week when I was in grade school.

[Deleted]

This is what we had in schools in USSR times. Promoting blind patriotism. Except for the God part.

That nonsense has no place in modern world. Patriotism is nice, but it should not be blind and there should be no references to religion.

[Deleted]

No and the school prayer needs to return. Atheists can go sit in the corner.

[Calfredd]

No and the school prayer needs to return. Atheists can go sit in the corner.

Are you being a contrarian right now or are you serious?

[Independent voter]

Pledge of Allegiance is a loyalty oath aimed at the Southern man.

"One nation", not two nations.
"Indivisible", means you can't split it up.

"With liberty and justice for all", we'll treat you fairly if you agree.

Some say the US Civil war was one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, the pledge is just a small thing meant to keep war from happening again.

I'm amazed at the people who don't realize what it is.

[Hashtronaut]

No keep the pledge as is.
There's no actual reason to remove it.

[Nerovar]

No and the school prayer needs to return. Atheists can go sit in the corner.

Lol, I love this guy. He's like a caricature of conservative Americans.

You know what's nice as well?
Secularism.

[JohnBrown1917]

Are you being a contrarian right now or are you serious?

Are you surprised with this coming from Trump supporters?

[kail]

I'm indifferent on the subject tbh. The only strong point you have is #1 but that's more of a society issue.

In the end, no school or student shouldn't be required to stand/say the pledge.

[Calfredd]

Are you surprised with this coming from Trump supporters?

I want to say "yes" but...

[Triceratrozer]

Eh, it's weird and forced and no one really cares about or means it when they recite it. It's kinda superfluous so why not ditch it.

[kail]

No and the school prayer needs to return. Atheists can go sit in the corner.

What's the school prayer?