Why does Gul´dan mythic have to last over 15 minutes?

[Deleted]

Lei Shen, Archimonde, Blackhand are three of many fights that were difficult but lasted just around 10 minutes. I get Sha of Fear, Garrosh vibes all over my body. Can´t believe they actually went through with almost the same formula again.
Phase 1 is such a snoozefest. In terms of introducing actual skill-based mechanics that test your raiders, instead you will face a test of endurance.
Or have the fight stay as long but at least hotfix in some more mechanics omg. Ragnaros was a 14 minute fight but it had way more mechanics and was actually a fitting end-boss, same with Imperator.

Blizzard just intended to wear you down with that fight, surely. Yawnfest.

STOP WITH THOSE 15-minute mythic boss fights please!

Inb4 17 minute KJ mythic in ToS. Because thats the only way they can make a mythic end boss difficult for raiders.

[Dragon Claws]

Because people complained that EN was too easy. So Blizzard just shoves tons of mechanics down your throat and expects you to do them all.

[Deleted]

There is an easy way to see bad design. You just have to make most abilities of an encounter extremely hard and even add RNG elements and if people die you are basically instant wipe. The longer a fight lasts the higher the chance of someone screwing up.

= and this is how you get increased difficulty, because intelligently designed mechanics are soooooo hard to create

In 3 years encounters are going to last longer than people can stay awake.

[Deleted]

It doesn't have to. But why shouldn't it?

[Radaney]

I have the feeling this might be a complaint thread by someone not even on Mythic Gul'dan.

[Ebalina]

Tbh any boss that lasts more then 10mins is already a snooze fest and no one will care how good the fight actually is.

Because those fights who last longer then that are made by 2 things.
Either a very hard 1st/2nd phase where if some one screws up you wipe.
Or a snooze fest 1st/2nd phase with insanely hard last phase where if some one screws up you just trow 10mins out the window again because that one cripple in your raid decided to move left instead of right and you have to go over again.

Bosses are not fun when they last that long.
And lets be honest some one used Ragnaros as a example.
This to date is probably one of the hardest bosses of all time, but this boss will never be remembered by that factor because it was a DRAG to do.
After u've gotten the p1 and p2 parts down which were essentially dancing around like chiken/monkey dealing with engulfing flames and all adds you now had to have the RETARD check of who can position in a triangle "a thing blizzard never intended that mechanic to work like that just fyi they said it them selfs" but never really reverted it because well boss was killed tha way and once again players proved to be supperior at figuring things out before blizzard.

Now that boss was hard but it was such a snooze fest.
How do i know?
I had over 400+ wipes on it to reach last phase only to have some imbecile panic and blow up the grp cause he was standing 1yard to close of where he shouldn't of been at all.
A mechanic so simple that you'd think that after so many years ppl can handle it but in all truth after dancing around for 10mins in 1st 2 phases ppl get weared down and are prone to more mistakes even with simple shit like that.

Gul'dan so far looks to be the exact same fight, even on heroic he has 2 much hp just prologning the phase where there isn't really anything hard about that phase just wears you down mentally.

And i know i've done the fight with 25-30ppl of which 20 prolly couldn't surpass 400k dps and i did actually kill it that way on my alts we had almost 2 extra dreadlords + idk how many flames as well and eyes + bonds combos which i've never even seen on my main even at week one.

Long story short TLDR = long fights are bad for every one.

[Nitros14]

I like long fights as long as there's not too many of them. Imperator Mar'gok mythic was great. It's pretty intense when you're 13 minutes into an encounter, best not screw up! Also feels enormously satisying to win.

In 3 years encounters are going to last longer than people can stay awake.

Nefarian often took 25 minutes in Blackwing Lair. Four Horsemen was 20-25 minutes. I remember my first Kael'thas kill being 19 minutes. Illidan around 20. World first Sha of Fear was 23 minutes.


~15 minutes seems about right to me for a tier end boss. That's Lich King/Yogg-Saron/Ragnaros/Garrosh/Mar'gok length. Some can be a bit shorter like Archimonde (11 minutes world first). I felt Blackhand was too short.

[Fleckens]

I have the feeling this might be a complaint thread by someone not even on Mythic Gul'dan.

That or a melee dps as I can sort of understand that phase 1 is boring from their perspective. I'm not really a huge fan of the Guldan fight either honestly, being in a Guild that's working on making a clean transition into phase 3, I'm not looking forward to actually having to practice that phase when you have to go thorugh 10 minutes before you get to it. I do somewhat agree that it's a bit lazy way of making a hard fight, make a couple of long phases and then make last phase essentially a completely different fight. And even without the last phase it would still be the hardest fight in the instance.

[xcess]

Sargeras fight will probably be long

[Axelond]

Simple reason you say a good end boss is 10 min long, well heroic is a 10 min fight. For mythic however I guess they feel forced to add something extra in. They already removed P1 in mythic and heroic phase 2-3 needs to be longer than on heroic for difficulty. Now whatever you add on is gonna push the fight beyond 10 min. For the mythic only phase to feel good you probably need at least 3 min. So designing for heroic makes the fight 10 min but ends up being 15 min on mythic just because they have to add a extra phase. It's been like this for all mythic bosses. Sha of fear was the only point where it got too long (almost 20 min). 15 min is pushing it but as long as there is always something new going on in a fight 15 min is fine.

[CptAwesome]

Simple reason you say a good end boss is 10 min long, well heroic is a 10 min fight. For mythic however I guess they feel forced to add something extra in. They already removed P1 in mythic and heroic phase 2-3 needs to be longer than on heroic for difficulty. Now whatever you add on is gonna push the fight beyond 10 min. For the mythic only phase to feel good you probably need at least 3 min. So designing for heroic makes the fight 10 min but ends up being 15 min on mythic just because they have to add a extra phase. It's been like this for all mythic bosses. Sha of fear was the only point where it got too long (almost 20 min). 15 min is pushing it but as long as there is always something new going on in a fight 15 min is fine.

It's not fine, it just makes the boss really painful to progress on. They should actually just have a rule that says no boss ever goes past 10, maybe 11 minutes.

If they want to add the mythic only phase then cut some of the heroic clone phases out. They already took off the first phase as you said, but the bosses' hp pool needs to be reduced if they want to keep all that shit in there and have another phase on the end. It's not fun to battle through a boss for twelve minutes just to get to a completely new phase and have to progress that one twelve minute wipe at a time.

[babyback]

That's the problem when you have phases dedicated to difficulty.

I much prefer an extra boss in mythic than an extra phase.

[Oneirophobia]

That's the problem when you have phases dedicated to difficulty.

I much prefer an extra boss in mythic than an extra phase.

How cool would it have been to get sucked through the portal in the sky and have to kill something?

[TheFirstOnes]

Sargeras fight will probably be long

Sad thing is, I can actually expect us fighting Sargeras by the end of this...

[Bigbazz]

It doesn't have to. But why shouldn't it?

Because it creates long boring fights that accomplish more in consuming time than anything else. I think 8-12 minutes is quite long enough for an endboss, and you can fit in a lot of mechanics with that time frame without it dragging out forever like for example Iron Maidens in Blackrock Foundry.

[FuxieDK]

Lei Shen, Archimonde, Blackhand are three of many fights that were difficult but lasted just around 10 minutes. I get Sha of Fear, Garrosh vibes all over my body. Can´t believe they actually went through with almost the same formula again.
Phase 1 is such a snoozefest. In terms of introducing actual skill-based mechanics that test your raiders, instead you will face a test of endurance.
Or have the fight stay as long but at least hotfix in some more mechanics omg. Ragnaros was a 14 minute fight but it had way more mechanics and was actually a fitting end-boss, same with Imperator.

Blizzard just intended to wear you down with that fight, surely. Yawnfest.

STOP WITH THOSE 15-minute mythic boss fights please!

Inb4 17 minute KJ mythic in ToS. Because thats the only way they can make a mythic end boss difficult for raiders.

People LOOOOOVE fights where you can Bloodlust twice..

It's been a real thing, since Yogg-Saron...

[KaPe]

First tier always has a 15+ min boss, its almost like a meme.
Cata Nef
MoP Sha
WoD The ogre guy
Legion Guldan

And in all of those cases you could cut out several minutes and lose nothing. In fact, that's exactly what happened back at Sha, with 10% buff in phase one once you managed to get past it.

Blizzard should take the Mannoroth approach - they removed the initial part with the adds and added their abilities into the fight proper. There was no need for additional X minutes of boredom before the real boss started.

[grexly75]

Doing a google search on this and people are saying some of the old raid boss fights could last up to 30 minutes, so 15 minutes could be seen as a walk in the park plus the fact that you are beating the snot out of Illidan in the last part of that fight..

[Spicymemer]

Big name bosses have always been long duration encounters.

So this makes you a noob to complain about fight length.

[TOM_RUS]

Because blizzard devs are fucking morons. Encounters should not last longer than 6-8 min.