Mantle + Dos / Subterfuge

[Aeon-]

I recently acquired the legendary shoulders to go with my DoS... I've been reading that Subterfuge is the best talent instead of Nightstalker with this setup.. is that the case?

Is Subterfuge only beneficial due to the increased Garrote damage?

Thanks

[Deleted]

I believe its also due to getting 9s of 100% crit after vanish altho that is going away in 7.2 last I read on discord
So yes, subterfuge is best for another 2 days, after that we will have to see
Another thing is that dos now breaks stealth so you cant use it after vanish to prolong stealth

This was a few days ago but I havent heard anything about it changing so its probably going live as is

[Aeon-]

Damn.

Can anyone confirm if the 9sec buff is just going down to 6?

[Deleted]

Yeah its definitly on PTR, it will be most likely on live too.
Just wait a till wensday and ask again :P

[iky43210]

bracer could be better than shoulder next patch, since the nerfs and bleed/poison dmg going up next patch.

[ScrubRouge]

7.2 should be swinging to Bracer + Boots to be the BiS setup. This is due to the Mantle Subterfuge nerf, T20 focusing on Garrote dmg and the new Gold kingsbane trait. With the new kingsbanes you should be able to fit 2 kingsbane per full rotation of your vendetta CD. which means overall that 30% execute dmg to bleeds and poison takes over.

P.s. for M+ the shoulders are still ham for trash murdering (Especially if you are a Nelf -- Shadowmeld OP). Just switch to bracers during tyrannical bosses.

[Deleted]

7.2 should be swinging to Bracer + Boots to be the BiS setup. This is due to the Mantle Subterfuge nerf, T20 focusing on Garrote dmg and the new Gold kingsbane trait. With the new kingsbanes you should be able to fit 2 kingsbane per full rotation of your vendetta CD. which means overall that 30% execute dmg to bleeds and poison takes over.

P.s. for M+ the shoulders are still ham for trash murdering (Especially if you are a Nelf -- Shadowmeld OP). Just switch to bracers during tyrannical bosses.

Yeah sad but true..
Shoulders need atleast some skill to excecute well, bracers are a nobrainer to use.

[Aeon-]

So its best to switch back to Nightstalker in 7.2?

[Kortiah]

Yeah sad but true..
Shoulders need atleast some skill to excecute well, bracers are a nobrainer to use.

Shoulders don't need more "skill" to use than bracers... You just have to change your from-stealth rotation and sometimes delay KB.
Same thing apply to bracers and delaying Vanish (and sometimes Vendetta) for sub-30% bursts on bosses.

They're both cycle-altering somehow, but none of the legendaries require "skill"...

[Deleted]

Just hoping I gte my next legendary soon. Got 8 so far and no boots or bracers. But with some luck my next is bracers. The whole legendary system is realy spec locking you tbh.

[Deleted]

Shoulders don't need more "skill" to use than bracers... You just have to change your from-stealth rotation and sometimes delay KB.
Same thing apply to bracers and delaying Vanish (and sometimes Vendetta) for sub-30% bursts on bosses.

They're both cycle-altering somehow, but none of the legendaries require "skill"...

You have to pool energy, get the right moment for your vanish. If you dont do so the shoulders are falling back hard so you HAVE to use them right. Bracers.. you just have to equip them, use your second pot after 30%. Even the delayed 30% rupture/vanish its just a very small difference , while a good and bad shoulder usage can make a BIG difference.
Bracers are equip and win, with the shoulders you need to know what to do and when to do it.

[Adalwolf]

Bracers are equip and win, with the shoulders you need to know what to do and when to do it.

Keep telling that to yourself until it's truth.

[otro]

Well bye 9 secs buff, they just fixed the subterfuge thing with shoulders...

[Aeon-]

So as I said before, is it back to Nightstalker??

[Symphonic]

I don't think tests have been done but the entire point of using subterfuge was for the extra 3 seconds of 100% crit. So without it, it makes sense to go nightstalker again.

[Aeon-]

As i suspected, thanks!

[Elyzibeth]

I don't think tests have been done but the entire point of using subterfuge was for the extra 3 seconds of 100% crit. So without it, it makes sense to go nightstalker again.

Actually that wasn't the entire point. the 125% buff to garrote is actually a substantial dps increase, and quite comparable to nightstalker. With the new talents increasing garrotes damage by 16%, plus the upcoming tier bonus to garrote, garrote will most likely outperform nightstalker by a bit. Not to mention if you are in a cleave scenario you can boost this substantially.

[Atarix]

Got my shoulders this morning, but yet to get a DoS.

Is DoS still able to get the 100% crit bonus?

[Aeon-]

Got my shoulders this morning, but yet to get a DoS.

Is DoS still able to get the 100% crit bonus?

Yes you get the crit bonus after stealth and vanish, but no longer 9 seconds after vanish from Subterfuge talent, its nerfed back to 6.

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone have the best rotation/opener now Subterfuge doesn't make the crit buff last 9seconds?

I've read rotations on mmo-champ which use envenom on vanish, should it not be Rupture?