Furiously frustrated

[Jikate-Stormrage]

My warrior: Saucyjon Illidan server.

My issue: I do pretty well on my elemental shaman. However I just do not enjoy playing him. I always want to play my warrior over all else. I've recently picked him back up and have feared him to 885. Now I do not have BIS trinkets. I've run life every week trying to get the 4 piece and the two trinkets that just don't exist. I wish I could get him into normal, however I'm not one to bring an alt that I feel is underperforming.

I do amazing air/cleave. My main issue is with ST. Ive read every guide I can find. Tried every add on. All with no success.

My question I guess is: Is the 4 piece and two trinkets THAT huge of an increase?? Should I just drop all hopes of returning to him until I find a way to mete out a 4 pic and the two trinkets from LFR?

I'll try to get a log to update this post with soon. Quite frankly I just can't figure out what I can do rotation wise to improve. I do still mess up occasionally but I'm pretty close to not messing it up the whole fight. Yet I see ppl with lesser gear out dosing me. Quite frankly it's frustrating.

Can someone please look st my gear to see what I can improve? If I have to make a complete set for st with just haste mastery idc, it'll happen. Ty in advance.

[Knockkout]

My warrior: Saucyjon Illidan server.

My issue: I do pretty well on my elemental shaman. However I just do not enjoy playing him. I always want to play my warrior over all else. I've recently picked him back up and have feared him to 885. Now I do not have BIS trinkets. I've run life every week trying to get the 4 piece and the two trinkets that just don't exist. I wish I could get him into normal, however I'm not one to bring an alt that I feel is underperforming.

I do amazing air/cleave. My main issue is with ST. Ive read every guide I can find. Tried every add on. All with no success.

My question I guess is: Is the 4 piece and two trinkets THAT huge of an increase?? Should I just drop all hopes of returning to him until I find a way to mete out a 4 pic and the two trinkets from LFR?

I'll try to get a log to update this post with soon. Quite frankly I just can't figure out what I can do rotation wise to improve. I do still mess up occasionally but I'm pretty close to not messing it up the whole fight. Yet I see ppl with lesser gear out dosing me. Quite frankly it's frustrating.

Can someone please look st my gear to see what I can improve? If I have to make a complete set for st with just haste mastery idc, it'll happen. Ty in advance.

If you're expecting to be anywhere close to a fury warrior with DoS & CoF, forget it! it simply isn't going to happen. I personally feel like Arms is much more consistent for ST. Fury is heavily reliant on procs and has a very reactive feel to it, procs that never seem to come when you need them too and the slightest misuse of rage is very detrimental. Having very large amounts of haste is helpful and what most people do. Arms also has stat priority values that are much more forgiving when compared to fury warriors under haste soft cap of about 23-25%.

TLDR- Fury is a smidge more gear dependent and warrior in general gain a stupid amount of damage with DoS and CoF

My overall opinion if you love warrior with bad luck on trinkets and want to have fun and still do loads of damage, play prot

[Arbiter]

My question I guess is: Is the 4 piece and two trinkets THAT huge of an increase??

Yea pretty much. 4pc increases enrage uptime quite a bit, CoF increases BC usage, and DoS provides a pretty huge single target burst window.

Should I just drop all hopes of returning to him until I find a way to mete out a 4 pic and the two trinkets from LFR?

Not necessarily. It helps, but skill can easily make up for it to a point to where you're at least viable until you get the pieces to help.

Your gear looks mostly fine. Can't always help with what's available to you. I would definitely recommend Mark of the Satyr on the neck though. And enchant that ring you have with haste.

Logs of your choice would be nice, but since you didn't provide any I took it upon myself to find a recent log that you were in. Heroic Chromatic Anomaly.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7

- Based on that alone I can tell you that your RB usage is low which means you're not using it on CD. Only time it shouldn't be used nearly on CD with your current gear is for 4+ mobs or longer execute phases.
- Odyn's Fury isn't being use properly with BC as a lot of those hits were outside of BC.
- Your CD usage in general needs work as BC was often sitting there off CD being wasted and Avatar was used once outside of BC along with Odyn's Fury. Since you don't have DoS or CoF, every Odyn's Fury should be inside every BC and Avatar should be held until BC is back up again.
- Your opener was slightly off (you used BT on open when you should use Rampage immediately after BC is used)
- You're Rampaging before 100 rage wasting potential Frothing Berserker procs.
- I'm not sure if the execute phase was just short but it seems like you wasted it. Needs work as well.
- basic rotation is a little off at some points which can easily be fixed but honestly not the worst parts.
- On top of correcting your ability usage, grab flasks, food, potions, and even augment runes if you can. Use them. They help the damage and can make up for some of the lack of gear. Should be using them regardless.

I'm not going to take the time to show you the correct way to do these things as there is a sticky guide posted in these forums by someone who put a hell of a lot of work into the spec. Either you haven't read it or you aren't following it. I'd suggest you give it a look.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Guide-amp-FAQ

[Jikate-Stormrage]

Yea pretty much. 4pc increases enrage uptime quite a bit, CoF increases BC usage, and DoS provides a pretty huge single target burst window.



Not necessarily. It helps, but skill can easily make up for it to a point to where you're at least viable until you get the pieces to help.

Your gear looks mostly fine. Can't always help with what's available to you. I would definitely recommend Mark of the Satyr on the neck though. And enchant that ring you have with haste.

Logs of your choice would be nice, but since you didn't provide any I took it upon myself to find a recent log that you were in. Heroic Chromatic Anomaly.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7

- Based on that alone I can tell you that your RB usage is low which means you're not using it on CD. Only time it shouldn't be used nearly on CD with your current gear is for 4+ mobs or longer execute phases.
- Odyn's Fury isn't being use properly with BC as a lot of those hits were outside of BC.
- Your CD usage in general needs work as BC was often sitting there off CD being wasted and Avatar was used once outside of BC along with Odyn's Fury. Since you don't have DoS or CoF, every Odyn's Fury should be inside every BC and Avatar should be held until BC is back up again.
- Your opener was slightly off (you used BT on open when you should use Rampage immediately after BC is used)
- You're Rampaging before 100 rage wasting potential Frothing Berserker procs.
- I'm not sure if the execute phase was just short but it seems like you wasted it. Needs work as well.
- basic rotation is a little off at some points which can easily be fixed but honestly not the worst parts.
- On top of correcting your ability usage, grab flasks, food, potions, and even augment runes if you can. Use them. They help the damage and can make up for some of the lack of gear. Should be using them regardless.

I'm not going to take the time to show you the correct way to do these things as there is a sticky guide posted in these forums by someone who put a hell of a lot of work into the spec. Either you haven't read it or you aren't following it. I'd suggest you give it a look.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Guide-amp-FAQ

Alright I will revisit that sticky. I think a lot of my mistakes were just being hesitant with not being Merle does before on that fight. But... I'll go spend some more time on target dummies and try to correct those issues. Tyvm for the in depth analysis.

[Arbiter]

If you're expecting to be anywhere close to a fury warrior with DoS & CoF, forget it! it simply isn't going to happen. I personally feel like Arms is much more consistent for ST. Fury is heavily reliant on procs and has a very reactive feel to it, procs that never seem to come when you need them too and the slightest misuse of rage is very detrimental. Having very large amounts of haste is helpful and what most people do. Arms also has stat priority values that are much more forgiving when compared to fury warriors under haste soft cap of about 23-25%.

TLDR- Fury is a smidge more gear dependent and warrior in general gain a stupid amount of damage with DoS and CoF

My overall opinion if you love warrior with bad luck on trinkets and want to have fun and still do loads of damage, play prot

I agree. Damage shouldn't be expected to match with a warrior equipped with the 4pc and trinkets, but I really don't see how in the world you can see RNGArms to be more consistent in any way. The RNG factor is half the reason why people don't want to touch Arms over Fury. Fury relies on properly CD and ability usage with rage management more than procs. Arms is the proc based spec waiting on CS and MS resets to proc praying to Odyn that you don't hit a dry spell. Arms also isn't more forgiving for stats. It's way too reliant on a single stat. There is no "soft cap" for Fury. Not since NH.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright I will revisit that sticky. I think a lot of my mistakes were just being hesitant with not being Merle does before on that fight. But... I'll go spend some more time on target dummies and try to correct those issues. Tyvm for the in depth analysis.

My recommendation is to go look up high ranking warriors on single target fights (or any fights you're curious about) and just examine their buff uptimes and timeline of casts to compare to what you're doing. Between that and the sticky and you should be good to go.

[Knockkout]

I agree. Damage shouldn't be expected to match with a warrior equipped with the 4pc and trinkets, but I really don't see how in the world you can see RNGArms to be more consistent in any way. The RNG factor is half the reason why people don't want to touch Arms over Fury. Fury relies on properly CD and ability usage with rage management more than procs. Arms is the proc based spec waiting on CS and MS resets to proc praying to Odyn that you don't hit a dry spell. Arms also isn't more forgiving for stats. It's way too reliant on a single stat. There is no "soft cap" for Fury. Not since NH.

I think we're saying the same thing just have a different ways of looking at it and maybe my word choice is a little hoky. Fury is very much about Rage Management and CD usage what I mean about proc's is BT Crit's/Enrage Window which can seem like absolutely forever at times. Where as Arms, CS resets are constantly proc'ing not as often as Shield Slam but it certainly feels more like it and if you miss a CS proc because you burnt the global on Focused Rage instead it's no where nears as detrimental as messing up on improper rage expenditure. Also, Haste for Fury prior to reaching 25% has a much higher DPS per value than other stats while Arm's stat priority is pretty consistent across the board about 1.5 DPS per value between stats.

Maybe I'm a homer and prefer Arms to Fury historically, but to me the Arms rotation is much easier to maintain ST DPS with especially if he doesn't have DoS and CoF. I do and they respond better to Fury, so when I'm forced to DPS. I DPS as fury but that doesn't mean I like it :/

[azztigma]

Really hard to say what you're doing wrong because I don't see logs of your ST fights except for a heroic chronomatic anomaly. Looking at that fight, you had 882 ilvl gear, crappy trinkets, no tier bonuses. You did 331k DPS.

I checked my logs for when I was 883 ilvl, also crappy trinkets, and no tier bonuses for chronomatic anomaly, I did 573k DPS. I know chronomatic anomaly is not a very good fight to compare DPS because that fight can be cheesed. But I have nothing else to go off of. It would be much better if you had logs for trillax/krosus/augar.

With that said, it looks like your ST rotation is way off, you should have at least been doing 450k-470k.

Lets look at some of the stats:

My kill took 2m 44s, your kill took 3m 45s.

Raging blow casts: Mine -> 35 Yours -> 38 (average dmg per cast difference insignificant)
Rampage casts: Mine -> 16 Yours -> 19 (my average ramp dmg per cast 780k, yours 540k)
BT casts: Mine -> 37 Yours -> 43 (average dmg per cast difference insignificant)
Odys Fury casts: Mine -> 3 Yours -> 5 (my average dmg per cast 2 mil, yours 700k)
Frothing Berserker Buff Procs: Mine -> 19 Yours -> 13 (this is a big deal, because you should have more than me)

Few things to point out here according to that data, your not doing GCD lock well enough, because your fight lasted 1m+ your raging blows should be at least at 41-42, BT casts looks a bit better but still should be higher. The biggest problem I'm seeing is probably the way you manage your BC cooldown. If you're at 60-70 rage, don't use BC, wait until you get 100 rage, use rampage and immediately use BC, because that'll give your rampage crit, then you can use RB because FB and Enrage will be up. You'll also be able to use rampage again because you regained the 100 rage from BC and then OF. If you're below 60 rage, then use BC on cooldown. You also should have proc'd at least 24-25 FBs, looks like you're using rampage sometimes before 100 rage.

So it just looks like you need to clean up your GCD lock priority, and your buff management. Also I think mark of the hidden satyr or w/e its called is a better neck enchant. It's a pretty big must to use flasks/pots/food for raids like that, could help your DPS if you're not already using them.

I think some ppl think that fury is an easy spec to play and it is if you don't care about squeezing every ounce of dps out of it. But if you want to do the peak dps that fury is capable of then there are a lot of nuances especially with buff management. I personally think I have a lot of room to improve and play more optimally so my DPS probably isn't even that good (comparing equivalent ilvls) compared to some of the better players out there.

[Artunias]

There's a lot you can do wrong as a Fury Warrior, but you absolutely DO have to have 4pc, CoF, and DoS to be a top tier contender. You can be good with 4pc and DoS, but CoF can really make or break a lot of fights.

[dacoolist]

I thought fury warriors were supposed to be furious

OT: I still like furry over arms myself

[azztigma]

I also want to say this, I'm going to go out on a limb and say people are WAY over rating DoS and CoF. With DoS you have to keep in mind that you're also losing 3 seconds of fury damage and it scales like crazy with it's own ilvl. So you have to subtract 3 seconds of fury damage from the damage gained by DoS. So if you have a LFR DoS, its basically crap, if you get a normal 880, ok its a gain and you'll improve your dps, if you have the heroic DoS you'll get a solid lead ahead of other warriors provided you know how to use it properly. If you get a 925 DoS, GGBBQ you win the game. As for CoF, it'll improve your dps by probably 50k, and it doesnt really matter which one you get, even the LFR one is good.

But my point is in reality you'll probably only get a normal 880 DoS and even with CoF your gain will be about 100k (check sims) which would make your dps on Chronomatic anomaly 431k, which is still way too low, your DPS won't magically improve by 300k, unless of course you get the 925 DoS. Magic happens with that one

[Deleted]

If you're expecting to be anywhere close to a fury warrior with DoS & CoF, forget it! it simply isn't going to happen. I personally feel like Arms is much more consistent for ST. Fury is heavily reliant on procs and has a very reactive feel to it, procs that never seem to come when you need them too and the slightest misuse of rage is very detrimental. Having very large amounts of haste is helpful and what most people do. Arms also has stat priority values that are much more forgiving when compared to fury warriors under haste soft cap of about 23-25%.

TLDR- Fury is a smidge more gear dependent and warrior in general gain a stupid amount of damage with DoS and CoF

My overall opinion if you love warrior with bad luck on trinkets and want to have fun and still do loads of damage, play prot

What procs are you talking about??? Fury is extremely consistent

[Darkfriend]

What procs are you talking about??? Fury is extremely consistent

Yeah, it is the other way around. Arms is procs, fury is consistent. Outside of BT crits and SD procs in execute, and I guess melee hits missing, its very consistent.

[Arbiter]

Yeah, it is the other way around. Arms is procs, fury is consistent. Outside of BT crits and SD procs in execute, and I guess melee hits missing, its very consistent.

Not to mention that Rampage and Furious Slash removes most of the RNG involved with BT crits.

[Kajzzer]

If i may add my own experience to how important DoS is:
First raid as warrior, I was checking BURST ONLY (so like 10 seconds) pre raid. It was around 600-700k. After gul'dan, i went to dummy and used the DoS burst rotation. 1 mill 600k. I cried.