Mafia #82 - Everybody's got a secret

[Deleted]

Neither does yours graeham since yesterday pretty much proved you are the +1 voter

[Monkz]

As per post #620 the game has ended!

A huge congratulations to the Mafia (Virothe, Graeham, Kleos and Palawin) for winning the game!

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The Setup

2 Mad Scientists (Celtic, Listo) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/qvCvaSVej4JMJ
3 Mafiosos (Graeham, Kleos, Palawin) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/CZz4BZMF98r
1 Separated Goon (Virothe) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/DMjK7yfLPs3
2 Friendly Biologists (Catta, Dupti) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/cHpXrNs3D59Am & https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/b7UJRE4u5Xi
1 Spy (Largehorn) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/yvaa3Sxuyq2qn
1 Cop (Kryllian) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/YtWQXfGSU3neL
1 Doctor (Marack) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/k3snmyLdLeg5
1 Bulletproof (Danner) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/3nxbpq4qKYGx
1 Watcher (Crackleslap) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/gRCvxGSUsajL
1 Tracker (Tumppu) -- https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/7sjvqa5Z52w

Dead thread: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/3uhCcM6YDp5D

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FAQ

What was Palawins drawback?

He would die on N6.

I wanted to create a role meant for heavy bussing. I'm pretty known for my bussing as mafia, and I wanted a role that rewarded that type of play.
Obviously Virothe in particular picked up on this, and tunnelvisioned his own Godfather very heavily, which in turn gave him alot of town-cred.
-- but Monkz, why did you hide the Godfather drawback when he died?

Because otherwise there would've been 0 town points to gain for bussing him.
However, I never told the Mafia that the Godfather drawback would be hidden when Palawin flipped. If I had done that, I think it would've been too easy to exploit.
So for me it was always about balancing it. Making bussing the Godfather a very legit tactic, without making it overpowered.
Overall I'm happy about how that turned out.


How did none die on the first two nights?

It's actually quite amusing. Two standard nightkills and four doses of poisoning. No roleblocks/protections hitting the right targets, and still no deaths/poisoned people coming in to day 3.
In hindsight, I should've made Danner immune to the poison, but that would only have saved the SK's one dose of poisoning (Celtics on N2).

Night 1:
Mafia Kill: Danner
Listo Poison: Danner
Celtic Poison: Danner

All three hit Danner who was immune to nightkills.

Night 2:
Mafia Kill: Listo
Listo Poison: Graeham
Celtic Poison: Danner

The Mafia went for Listo who had a one-time shared bulletproof vest, and the SK's poisoned Danner (immune to NK's) again and Graeham who had a one-time antidote for poisoning that was shared with the rest of the Mafia.


What was the original setup?

The original setup for 20 players was actually quite different. The biggest change was the addition of a vigilante, a masonry and a third SK.

3 SK's
5 Mafia (4 together, 1 separated)
12 Town

I'm not gonna explain how the poison works here (read the Mad Scientists QT, to see the SK rolecard), but being able to apply 3 doses of poison on 1 night if you choose, does makes sense. So when I had to balance it for 14 people instead, I was actually debating between doing it with two SK's and a four-man mafia team (like I decided to do) or having two separate mafia teams with three players each, one with a standard NK and one with the poison.


What kind of smartass-answer is "depends on the night" to Virothes question?

So yeah. I would never answer that. If I were to make such a role, it would be limited to yes/no questions.


Palawins role was too clearly scum.

That's not a question dumbass. Don't you know what FAQ means?!
I made Palawins powerup very scummy on purpose. I have no idea how some people even suggested he could be town after the Force: Nightphase ability. Like I would ever make that a town-power, silly people!
Palawin played it pretty much like I had envisioned it.
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Notable things throughout the game

There is alot of stuff worth mentioning, but here's a couple of pointers if you do wanna read back on some of the things that happened throughout the game;

-- The Mafia and Virothe trying to communicate without anyone else knowing.

Virothe was a separated goon, which means he had access to the Mafia QT, but could'nt write in there and his team didn't know he existed. Virothe had to write some really awkward things in the thread to get their attention, so he started mirroring my comments in the Mafia QT, and that's when Graeham picked up on the fact that Virothe indeed could read their thread (or it would've been a hell of a coincidence that Virothe posted something random about a top hat and some hot pants in the mainthread, only minutes after I answered "Hot pants and a top hat" to Graehams questions in the mafia QT about what I was wearing).
The Mafia planned to NK Virothe though, because they thought they could recruit him doing it. Luckily for the team, Virothe talked himself out of that one, with some weird posts, and the Mafia picked up what he was trying to say and targeted someone else.


-- Danner was 1 vote off getting lynched for several hours on D2 without anyone knowing.

Danners drawback combined with Graehams powerup ment that Danner was 1 vote off getting lynched for the majority of day 2. The only person that knew it was that close was me, which ment I had to sit there and refresh the site every 10 minutes, because I had to be ready to end the day. It's not like anyone would've stopped talking had he received another vote, because none would've known he was lynched.


-- Crackle watched Dupti on N3 (when he died), but Tumppu tracked Crackle to Dupti aswell

It lined up pretty perfectly on N3 with Crackle watching both Kleos (Mafia Roleblocker) and Graeham (Mafia Killer) at Dupti on the night of his death. However it was not that easy, since Tumppu tracked Crackle on that same night -- which obviously ment that Tumppu thought Crackle had to be the killer.


-- The amount of well-rounded scum fakeclaims in this game

Virothe (Mafia) claimed Questioner
Celtic (SK) claimed Monk Vigilante
Graeham (Mafia) claimed Fisherman

All three claims are very unique, and quite believeable in a theme like this.


-- An exploit to the game, that I hadn't even considered

It's always entertaining to have Danner in a QT, but it turns out you learn a few things along the way aswell.
I'll just refer to Post #38 in his QT, and consider myself lucky that none tried that.
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Thanks for playing

[Deleted]

THEY WERE BOTH MAFIA?

God damn well played Virothe. Didnt figure that.

[Graeham]

Thanks for hosting the game, Monkz! I enjoyed it a lot - things were very tense throughout and at various points I doubted that I would survive until the end. Luckily my fake claim seemed to buy me the additional time I needed, though it was clearly very close and the poison team could easily have won instead. Well done, everyone - this was a very exciting game for me.

I particularly enjoyed the secret messages with Virothe, that was a lot of fun! So, special thanks to everyone who participated and of course to my fellow scum buddies.

[Kleos]

Thanks for the game GJ team (Specially Virothe) and sorry for my shitty play, I clearly do not have time to play >.>

[Kryllian]

Congrats Scum! I'll never trust any of you again!

Thanks for the game Monkz!

[dupti]

Town played poorly but Virothe played a great game.

Thanks for the game Monkz

[Danner]

Well done scum. 4 out of six scum living to the endgame is just not fair. That you all refused to murder each other seriously killed the town's chance of winning this game. Especially considering how we had so many nolynches.

Especially well done Virothe. You deserve that win so much after that masterful bussing.
Also well done Graeham - your claim was SOOO good. And your interaction with Palawin on D3 seriously threw me off. The only thing stopping you was the doublevote thing. Honestly, that power was more of a downside for you than a benefit I think. Had I been in your shoes, I would have just avoided voting on those even days.
@Listo, @celtic: I didn't think you were town one bit. But that you were teammates surprised me. Two poisoners I did not see coming.

Everyone else: I can see why the scum want to paint me as scum. The rest of you - work on that.
@Monkz: Great game. I had a _lot_ of fun. Thank you for hosting!

[Virothe]

Gotta give some credit to Graem here though, cause if he had not finally clued in the mafia was gonna kill me n1/n2 because I was freaking them out with my posts.

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But man this role was super frustrating, the mafia was super green to the roles and doing things like rbing and killing the same target was driving me nuts

[Deleted]

I also had a great game Monkz. Thanks for setting it up.

Shout out to my buddy Listo, who I nearly got lynched XD

[Virothe]

Town played poorly but Virothe played a great game.

Thanks for the game Monkz

Town played okay, you have to remember 2 no lynches were due to Pala and his timing on his abilities and he almost had a third night if monkz had not been around to show his ability didnt work.

Oh and if you all our curious my fake role did have a drawback I had created to keep it legit as possible. It was a quest based system and if i failed the quest I failed so for this last one to get 100 posts i had until end of day 8 to achieve.

[Crackleslap]

I knew Virothe's pushing of Palawin wasn't genuine. Too bad I never push on these type of things because I suck. XD

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Interesting setup though. Was fun.

[dupti]

Town played okay, you have to remember 2 no lynches were due to Pala and his timing on his abilities and he almost had a third night if monkz had not been around to show his ability didnt work.

Honestly, I wasn't only referring to the no lynch, but more so town wasting time on Danner earlier on when he was pretty much always town at that point (seeing as we had no reason to believe we had multiple scum teams at that time). Sure his play was a bit weird but that doesn't mean you can just ignore simple logic. (danner was poisoned > poison scum ability > danner not on team with poisoner > no other NKs revealed, for now more likely only one scum team -> danner isn't scum).

Sure this can change as soon as we reason to believe there are multiple scum teams, but not before that. Trying to put that much doubt on a NK immune pretty much confirmed town (at that point) is not really in towns best interest I think.

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@Danner, by the way I'm not sure I understand your hard town read on Graeham? I initially thought you had the same read as me, but apparently that isn't the case.
I thought Graeham was town for revealing the thing about a delayed NK because I don't think he would reveal that if he was the poisoner and at that point I thought the poison was a mafia ability (and was leaning towards there only being 1 mafia team), which is why I do not understand why you would be townreading him if you thought we might have multiple scums, especially considering the train on you earlier on. I think from your point of view he would look very scummy, no?

[Virothe]

I knew Virothe's pushing of Palawin wasn't genuine. Too bad I never push on these type of things because I suck. XD

Nah it's fine I had 0 back up plans if anyone did lol, I was really only pushing on Palawin to keep Graem and Kleos from trying to do it. We didn't know his drawback wouldn't be displayed and Pala was saying to hop on him if shit went pear shaped but that would have been awful for the other two to do since if the drawback did flip it casts a lot of shade on the individual.

The reason I pushed so hard is to prevent them from trying to gain cred from Pala and to create a smoke cloud large enough in the thread that they could go unnoticed. I actually 100% intended to die for pushing Pala as I was, but I didn't have a night kill and couldn't effectively communicate with my team so the switch off of maybe drawing shit out in the thread for a couple of days and giving them time to stack some kills seemed a good trade.

Plus I expected to be a main target for night actions and that seemed to go as I planned so I can't say that my plan backfired exactly but holy shit did it go off the rails.

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Also this has been me the entire game with the mafia thread

[Largehorn]

Good game guys. If you had all NOT lynched me without me being able to say anything, we might have done a bit better. :P

I manage to nail the Mafia QT >.<

[Danner]

@Danner, by the way I'm not sure I understand your hard town read on Graeham? I initially thought you had the same read as me, but apparently that isn't the case.
I thought Graeham was town for revealing the thing about a delayed NK because I don't think he would reveal that if he was the poisoner and at that point I thought the poison was a mafia ability (and was leaning towards there only being 1 mafia team), which is why I do not understand why you would be townreading him if you thought we might have multiple scums, especially considering the train on you earlier on. I think from your point of view he would look very scummy, no?

It was a non-mafia read. Graeham had some pretty substantial interaction with Palawin on D3.
And yes, he was very scummy. But with an awesome claim. The +1 vote tipped the scales. But it was a seriously difficult gameday to choose; I suspected all three to be scum, but I didn't want to lynch the singular person I believed to be the poisoner. And I just didn't know who that was.

As for your simple logic, I raised it on D7. Let's just say none of the scum had any incentive to give it any credit. And there were four of them; one more than I expected

[PalawinFC]

Thanks Monkz for the game.

A couple people throwing shade on the roleblock choices. I was largely the one saying kleos should block our kill target, and here is why :
We had a lot of kills missing and a lot of claimed protect / kill immune roles out there. The block improved our chance of kill going through.
And more importantly - the roleblock drawback was that he could only target each person once. If we were just using it on surviving targets for the sake of trying to block a tpr, we might not have it available to use on them later if they claim.

GG all. Was a fun game. I think my role was slightly too powerful. Mainly because the drawback didn't flip. If the drawback had flipped there's no way we would have won.

[Virothe]

A couple people throwing shade on the roleblock choices.

I'm not really throwing shade, sept that you guys were like 5 seconds out from killing me before Graem had that OH SHIT! moment lol

Outside that, I think you guys did really, really well. It's probably the best I've ever seen Graem at, and for being in unfamiliar roles and having such a bat shit crazy set up you guys did amazing, I mean hell the entire reason we won is that everyone played a really big hand in how we molded the game so if you had played it differently we might not be standing here the victors :P

[PalawinFC]

I'm not really throwing shade, sept that you guys were like 5 seconds out from killing me before Graem had that OH SHIT! moment lol

Outside that, I think you guys did really, really well. It's probably the best I've ever seen Graem at, and for being in unfamiliar roles and having such a bat shit crazy set up you guys did amazing, I mean hell the entire reason we won is that everyone played a really big hand in how we molded the game so if you had played it differently we might not be standing here the victors :P

Hehe. I hadn't read the thread properly before Graham caught on to your messages.

I think we got a little lucky and got a huge payout from that luck due to you taking calculated risks.

I agree re Graham playing well. I can't believe town lynched danner over Graeham. I was shocked!

[listo95]

Hehe. I hadn't read the thread properly before Graham caught on to your messages.

I think we got a little lucky and got a huge payout from that luck due to you taking calculated risks.

I agree re Graham playing well. I can't believe town lynched danner over Graeham. I was shocked!

Hey technically we didn't! Only Graeham and Virothe did since only 2 were required for it.

Also how dare you RB and try to kill me N2!

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Also Monkz, question. Why did we even have that final day? It was 2v2 and they had a double vote meaning it was impossible for me and celtic to win. There was 0 point to it.

Also if the antidote was used by the mafia would they have become immune to the poison? (assuming so)

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Also reason I was willing to take a gamble with Danner. I honestly did not expect there to be 2 more mafia. 6 scum in a 14 player game is just to many in my opinion.