Karazhan as a part of LFD was mistake?

[Zelorra]

LFD fails on hard dungeons. This was made very clear at the Cata start, and even after the Ghostcrawler's famous and retarded article "WoW, Dungeons are hard", they nerfed them to the ground. Because no, it didn't get better after people learned the place, because you couldn't learn the place in LFD, simply because it was usually disbanded at the first boss

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I tanked lower for some people who were obviously there for first time. I just skulled the priority targets, did the interrupts myself (prot pally, so I got lots), and pretty much put group on my back. My biggest hurdle was not being able to jump off balcony like we do for Nightbane runs and having to figure out how to get in to Moroes.

[Deleted]

I see people doing 100k dps in dungeons all day, being geared myself, I don't care and I end up doing 60% of the damage throughout the entire dungeon, I'm fairly sure I could solo Heroic Karazhan on my own and without a healer too, if I wanted to. Point is, don't lay awake by it and help a bit if needed, but if you are really geared, you don't care and you can tank and dps the bosses yourself whilst being a dps lol.

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LFD fails on hard dungeons. This was made very clear at the Cata start, and even after the Ghostcrawler's famous and retarded article "WoW, Dungeons are hard", they nerfed them to the ground. Because no, it didn't get better after people learned the place, because you couldn't learn the place in LFD, simply because it was usually disbanded at the first boss

The playerbase fails, not really the LFD system. The dungeons in cata were hard though, at least prenerf, a nerf was expected due to it requiring a premade to actually finish it. I think a few of us did the mistake to do heroic deadmines, the first day and via LFD, safe to say it took hours due to people not knowing half the fights, and just getting killed all over the place.

I don't see any of the current heroic dungeons come even remotely close to that, I'd say Legion dungeons are harder than the WoD dungeons but compared to the Cataclysm unnerfed ones, it's like comparing lfr (legion dungeons) to mythic guldan (cata un-nerfed dungeons).

I mean to think about the fact that every Cataclysm dungeon boss had a mechanic that could one shot, and that mobs throughout the dungeon had to be constantly cc'd to avoid your tank getting rekt by 3 mobs or the fact that not doing the mechanics nearly 99% of the time ended up in a wipe... not even a mythic 15 is that punishing.

[Zelorra]

The playerbase fails, not really the LFD system.

The player base is just fine. The system that groups RANDOM people together is not suited for content that goes over some difficulty limit. And the expectation of some people seem to be extremely retarded. The OP complained about being grouped with people with low dps, well it's RANDOM grouping, you can be grouped with anyone, and most people that use LFD are guess what? Not over 900 ilvl, but shit ilvl.

[markos82]

Maybe instead of "step it up a little" you should have actually explained the fights. I got the new dungeon in LFD and no one else in there knew the fights. So I gave brief 2-3 sentence instructions and it went fine, despite deaths to one-shot mechanics. Not being a douchebag generally makes things to much smoother.

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Presumably so you couldn't just jump off the balcony and skip two rooms worth of trash.

Who says i havent explained?

[markos82]

People have nothing better to do than to ramp up their post number by replying to everything....

[Temp name]

People have nothing better to do than to ramp up their post number by replying to everything....

... Says the guy making a completely pointless post.

To answer your original question: No. It's a new dungeon to most people, you happened to get a bad group, and as a result got a bad experience. If you had instead gotten a group full of 900+ geared players you'd probably be thinking it's too easy and should be buffed.

It's like people saying Cathedral is hard. It might be, or maybe people just don't know how to do the bosses. Give it a week or two and see how random groups are dealing with it then before asking questions about if it was a mistake.

[Ebalina]

Sounds like bullshit to me tbh.

[Osmeric]

This is going to guarantee that I don't queue for heroics with an incomplete guild group. If this sort of crap comes up I want to be able to bail out immediately without feeling like I let a guildy down.

[Segus1992]

People QQ when something is not part of LFD
People QQ when something is part of LFD

Another day on MMO-C my lovelies

And simpletons keep claiming that opposites are somehow the same person. Obviously people have differing opinions, it's exactly why raids have four difficulties these days.

[Osmeric]

The playerbase fails, not really the LFD system.

The playerbase cannot be responsible for the performance of the game systems (even if they are a cause). The players, and what they do, are a boundary condition the game designers must take into account when designing content. "It's not our fault our product didn't work, it's our customers' faults" is never an argument that a designer of any product can use.

[Jinpachi]

OK, now I'm 100% sure i will be called idiot, clueless, elitest or who knows what else but this is just insane.

I decided to do a daily LFD, there was call to arms so why not and even if i queued when the wait time was over didnt got it.

I got into Lower Karazhan, 1st people didnt know where to go which isnt a problem, just follow people that know, but people couldnt do anything, people were doing <120k dps on 1st boss, me as tank ( yes I am above 900 ) were doing 2x combined dps of all dps. No stuns, no nothing, 4 died on the 2nd boss because they didnt know what do do. The dungeon is overtuned for people that don't have good gear and no one to carry them, thats just my opinion but well.

Anyway i got kicked from the dungeon because I dared to say "step it up a little", queued again, got into SAME group and got kicked after 3min again, this time i got deserter.

So instead of explaining the fights to those who may never have been in the new kara before, you simply say "step it up a little". Yeah, you are the problem, not the dungeon or the group. Did you even bother to play burning crusade? You clearly said 4 died on the second boss because they didn't know what to do, then have the nerve to say the dungeon is overtuned? FOH with that shit.

By the way, you have to be elite to be called an elitist.

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I tanked lower for some people who were obviously there for first time. I just skulled the priority targets, did the interrupts myself (prot pally, so I got lots), and pretty much put group on my back. My biggest hurdle was not being able to jump off balcony like we do for Nightbane runs and having to figure out how to get in to Moroes.

And now those people have some experience in the dungeon, and will add to more successful runs in the future.

[Sencha]

Every queueable content is a mistake.

[Redecle]

Tuning seems about right for hc.
I waited this long to step in to the place, cause i just simply haven't been arsed to find groups via finder.
I know.. biggest fucking obstacle ever to open group finder and having to actually search for something over pressing one button.
Granted i've done old Kara so i knew the layout.

I tanked 3/4th of the lower half, trash and bosses included because the tank couldn't hold aggro over me, but the point is i'm 880 rogue.
Granted the healing was on point and i overgeared the place by a mile, but still the rest were first timers and on the average gear level meant for the place and we didn't even wipe.
Stuff died like it was made out of cardboard.
If a dps can bloody tank it at this point, it's not overtuned.

[s_bushido]

People have nothing better to do than to ramp up their post number by replying to everything....

What's wrong, dear? Didn't get the sympathy you expected for your "waaah, my group kicked me for being an elitist douchebag" post?

[oathy]

I did it for the 1st time today
and it really was miserable. Posted in another thread the Tank seemed to be an expert on everyone else's class
yet when my Chaos Bolt was doing a million damage on Crit. He couldn't keep the agro halfway through he quit then another.
LFG is just that, sadly the patience of some people is almost zero. I much prefer 25 player raids there just seems a better atmosphere

[markos82]

So instead of explaining the fights to those who may never have been in the new kara before, you simply say "step it up a little". Yeah, you are the problem, not the dungeon or the group. Did you even bother to play burning crusade? You clearly said 4 died on the second boss because they didn't know what to do, then have the nerve to say the dungeon is overtuned? FOH with that shit.

By the way, you have to be elite to be called an elitist.

I did explained the fight, but they chose to ignore it thinking its HC so who cares. I said that after I soloed 2nd boss and after i realized that all 3 dps could have done more dps if they randomly hit the keyboard with their head. How is that a problem? How fcking hard is to read tactic and watch videos for a dungeon you never did? Are you the one of those ppl that are too lazy to watch guides, read journal ( dungeon ) and get basic things they need to do because why bother, there will be always someone who did that instead of you?

Oh I am Elite, you should know it after all you live under my shadow....

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I tanked Lower & Upper as +10s Sunday. Both seemed tuned about right. Our only wipes were on the last two bosses of Upper, both of which should be challenging as Tyrannical. We were a guild group so never any drama. We laughed off our wipes, did some collaborative problem-solving, and had fun with it. Return to Karazhan is the best instance Blizz has ever done, imho. I love the way they melded new content with all the flavor of the original.

[saradonin]

It wasn't. Both Lower & Upper seem tuned rather well for LFD, you can run though them like a breeze just like any other dungeon.
Not sure you ever noticed, but as a tank (I queue as tank quite often myself, despite being mainspec healer, it simply makes things faster):
- you choose the way group goes
- you can do a large chunk of interrupts needed
- you pick pulls and boss positioning to adapt to your group advantages/disadvantages
- you can prioritize adds/trash by marking them and vast majority of random dpsers will follow it without questions
Tanking is not just about pressing 1,2,3,aggro, it's just as much about leading a dungeon group as well. As soon as start implementing this instead if being an impatient, patronizing jerk, LFD will become less of a chore and might turn into a nice intermission with completely random people.

I tanked lower for some people who were obviously there for first time. I just skulled the priority targets, did the interrupts myself (prot pally, so I got lots), and pretty much put group on my back. My biggest hurdle was not being able to jump off balcony like we do for Nightbane runs and having to figure out how to get in to Moroes.

Pretty much this. Balcony caused a little confusion indeed.

[Deleted]

The playerbase cannot be responsible for the performance of the game systems (even if they are a cause). The players, and what they do, are a boundary condition the game designers must take into account when designing content. "It's not our fault our product didn't work, it's our customers' faults" is never an argument that a designer of any product can use.

That's a legitimate stupid statement, probably the dumbest statement I've read on this forum up to date.

It's your full responsibility as a player to research what you don't know, so you get an insight in how the things works. You think old school players had the luxury to go into a new dungeon clueless and then ruin the entire run for everyone? No, we didn't have that luxury, a fuck up and it generally ended up in you being kicked from the group.

Just read the god damn journal, they've even made a super casual version in the journal that literally says in one phrase on how to do the encounter, and people still refuse to do that? Well they should make all dungeons hard like in Cata again, and I will gladly kick anyone from the group that didn't take the time to read 3 lines of text.

But I guess you are one of those special snowflake IKEA furniture buyers that goes complaining at the desk because you couldn't assemble a table because you were too lazy to look at the pictures and read the text of the manual, provided and simplified especially for those that are lazy.