I sense a GDru nerfstorm coming in 7.2.5.

[Captain Fizz]

One of the worst offenders IMO was Odyn Phase 3 where I would just get demolished.

Er, that ( & Cenarius) should have been fine as a druid. Just run away (feral affinity if you REALLY want) and use IF... Take less damage than all bar Pally if bubbled & Monk.

We were one of the best for that if you ask me... I think you are finding reason to moan. I find my mobility fine using Skull Bash / Roar and if not tanking, dash.

[Segus1992]

Er, that ( & Cenarius) should have been fine as a druid. Just run away (feral affinity if you REALLY want) and use IF... Take less damage than all bar Pally if bubbled & Monk.

We were one of the best for that if you ask me... I think you are finding reason to moan. I find my mobility fine using Skull Bash / Roar and if not tanking, dash.

As someone who's been around MMO-C's forums for a while, this guy hardly ever does anything besides whine. He's only satisfied when his chosen spec is #1 (because performing is only possible with a handicap), anything else is dogshit, and he makes sure everyone knows his opinion.

e: infracted. Be nice to others.

[ReD-EyeD]

Even if Guardians are nerfed, the chance of them being bad is very low. Because what makes them OP is their core kit. The spec would have to be totally overhauled to become weak or average, or even not great. They just have access to too many defensives.

Wanted to post, but it's easier to just quote this. That is very true. Bears will be fine unless Blizzard redisign them from the scratch.

[Nevcairiel]

No way that's possible in most scenarios as i am required as a tank to spec into guttural roars to have raidwide utility. There isn't one fight in Nighthold where it's useless, thus making it mandatory

So if another tank is there and not you, the raid will fail from a lack of roars?
Its nice utility, but its hardly "required". Most cases it just compensates for the other people being movement slackers, really.

I like to take it anyway, can still mini-charge with Skull Bash, but I don't see it as mandatory.

[Captain Fizz]

As someone who's been around MMO-C's forums for a while, this guy hardly ever does anything besides whine.

Cool, being demolished on Odyn as a guardian kinda explains a lot... On ignore now.

[Polarthief]

As someone who's been around MMO-C's forums for a while, this guy hardly ever does anything besides whine. He's only satisfied when his chosen spec is #1 (because performing is only possible with a handicap), anything else is dogshit, and he makes sure everyone knows his opinion.

Just saying it's pretty fucking rude to attack someone like that. Also spreading lies, nice.

I don't even main spec Guardian, nor am I advocating for any of my specs to "be #1". I have asked for Boomkin buffs, yes, but that's because we're one of the lowest DPS specs right now (especially in ST and burst AoE), but okay.

[Williee]

I expect the typical armor nerf to keep us in check for armor capping and I am not sure how they will change mou. I am hoping they keep its mitigation but reduce the costs and put a cooldown on it. Make it similar to any other tank where their magic active is pretty much a free cost cooldown casts. None the less, any guardian player should expect the nerfs, its just how bad will it be since they plan to buff the weaker tanks again.

[Deleted]

Looks like GDru and BrMs are getting nerfed. I'm going to assume BDKs and VDHs will be getting buffs. Judging by Blizz's tendency to over-nerf and over-buff, there is actually a good chance that BDKs and VDHs might be the best tanks for ToS.

That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I can't remember the last time Blood DK's were T1 tanks.

It's about time the tanking meta shifted away from Druids and Facerolladins.

[Deleted]

MoU in combination with high health makes us really good for certain magic damage. Physical mitigation isnt the best but does scale really well. I reckon there will some tuning which will put gaurdian below a few other tanks. I reckon mastery scaling and armor increase nerfs, maybe a few % off MoU.

However the base will remain solid and especially if the tier lasts longer gaurdians will be among the best again.

btw imo we had amazing tools to deal with odyn spears as armor mitigated it so well. Cenarius was a bit ahrder because you did not always have SI for it.

[Zephyrion1602]

That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I can't remember the last time Blood DK's were T1 tanks.

It's about time the tanking meta shifted away from Druids and Facerolladins.

Blackrock Foundry with Breath of Sindragosa. Before that, IDK, maybe T1 of MOP, Garajal aside?

[Soulwell]

Blackrock Foundry with Breath of Sindragosa. Before that, IDK, maybe T1 of MOP, Garajal aside?

Negative was prot pallies solo healing raid groups

[lexonio]

This just in:

In my earlier post on this thread, I mentioned we were already considering what the right changes to Guardian would be going into Tomb, but that it was likely going to be for 7.2.5 and not 7.2. In the first 7.2.5 PTR, you can expect to see the following changes to Guardian:

--Mark of Ursol removed
--Maul costs 30 Rage (from 20), is now on the GCD, can now proc Gore, and damage increased by 400%.

I imagine the first change is most pertinent to those focused on the broader issue of tank balance. It may seem rather extreme, and that's part of why doing it mid-tier wasn't the plan we went with. But two factors that were important were 1) Mark of Ursol's design (trade your physical AM for a magical AM) was somewhat incompatible with any use of magic damage other than an occasional threatening spike, and 2) Druids had little in the way of identifiable weaknesses or things that potentially scare them. Even without Mark of Ursol, they have a mastery that's fully effective against magic, multiple medium to long cooldowns, Frenzied Regeneration, and some passives like Adaptive Fur. While we'll be continuing to watch this in 7.2.5 development, our expectation is that they will not struggle to complete content that involves magic damage--which the clearest test of why a button that allows them to mitigate it so much further is not needed at all.

Well, the hell?!

[reef]

@lexonio, danm... removing MoU will suck hands down - and that will make the tank challenge a shit show, even moreso than it is now. WTF. Also, whats with the maul change? Not a fan of how it will be on the gcd.

[Sonnillon]

Removing MoU seems dumb, not sure sadly other way they could solve the "issue". And why I call it dumb... on fight like Augur where all damage and fights where nasty shit ticks on you we will run out of our "super awesome" CDs and FR has just 2 charges... Not saying that guardians will become weaker, but I guess most tanks have magic damage resistance already built into their AM so seems just bit unjustified. Buffing damage from Maul and increasing it's rage cost I really don't get - maybe if no MoU and possible some more changes for our AM we have enough rage that we need to have something to use it up with?

Guess it's the matter of waiting how they try "to balance" the tanks out...

[Hellshout]

I'd rather spend one GCD on swipe than maul.
It's not about dps, it's about principle and proving a point. No real bear should have maul on it's bar.

Well at least with MoU gone, I can rest easily as not being the dumbest tank ever for not using it because Ironfur was hard coded in all the macros for damage

[Deleted]

The sadest part of them removing MoU is that it dumbs down the class even more then it is now, I like to make choices when playing. How bad this nerf is really depends on encounter design in ToS. If they bring in another Krosus/Augur then we might be pretty screwd :/

Oh and if you havn't done the mage tower challenge yet I would suggest getting on that asap, with MoU insane levels of gear (maybe even unobtainable amounts) will be needed to get it done.

[Hellshout]

The sadest part of them removing MoU is that it dumbs down the class even more then it is now, I like to make choices when playing. How bad this nerf is really depends on encounter design in ToS. If they bring in another Krosus/Augur then we might be pretty screwd :/

No we're not. Just use the gear and switch to Feral for those fights. I'm sure the guild will understand their main tank not being able to tank a boss because FR has only 2 fucking charges.

Druids had little in the way of identifiable weaknesses or things that potentially scare them.

So to finish their sentence. Now druid have tons of ways to get scared and be weak. You can thank us later.

[razisgosu]

I like the maul change. Since we won't be using Mark of Ursol now, it would otherwise allow us to do nothing but stack ironfur as much as we want. Maul was essentially useless due to how weak it hit. This will allow us to exchange a swipe filler for a maul filler, which would be a DPS gain, which I am okay with.

We don't have any significant passives that reduce magic damage though, that's what Ursol was for. Demon Hunters by comparison reduce magic damage by 20%, which is a significant difference.

[iamthedevil]

I'd rather spend one GCD on swipe than maul.
It's not about dps, it's about principle and proving a point. No real bear should have maul on it's bar.

Well at least with MoU gone, I can rest easily as not being the dumbest tank ever for not using it because Ironfur was hard coded in all the macros for damage

I don't play my druid much, my guardian is at 103 and I just started leveling him. Even I have been wondering why maul even exists.

What are the trying to accomplish with removing MoU? Just a straight nerf? They couldn't try and like maybe lessen it's effect instead of completely removing an ability?

[axxey]

Should have just increased the rage cost(could have even just doubled it) so you had to sacrifice more physical mitigation to save up for it.