Rogue quest OP?

[Mormolyce]

I think that the old Patron deck proved conclusively that just because a deck is sometimes unreliable doesn't mean it isn't broken as fuck.

The Rogue quest might not be the best deck in the game (which really says something about the power level in the game right now) but it's still a horrible design. The quest parameters were just to easy to cheese.

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Tarim, Dirty Rat, all of taunt quest warrior, any aggro deck.

I've been hit with plenty of Dirty Rats when playing Quest Rogue and it's by no means a surefire counter. I also main taunt warrior, and it may be a strong counterplay but I wouldn't really say counter, it's a close match with a slight advantage to quest warrior. Like with any deck, you're at the mercy of draw. His and yours.

[Mahourai]

Patron should never have been nerfed though? Like Patron is one of the only interesting combo decks in the history of HS, compared to shit like Quest Rogue.

[Deleted]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hear...ic/20757246514

The card is nerfed to 5 minions in a future update, making it completely useless. Get your 1600 dust when that happens

[Blueobelisk]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hear...ic/20757246514

The card is nerfed to 5 minions in a future update, making it completely useless. Get your 1600 dust when that happens

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

TAKE THAT. To the fucking Quest Rogues and the fucking people on this forum who said they were balanced and fair. Nothing about Quest Rogues was fair. I faced Quest Rogue ~27% of my matchups in ranked. I'm so glad I don't have to see much more of this bullshit.

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I'm jubilant right now. You guys ever see that scene in the movie Half Baked where the guy quits Burger King, but before he does he says fuck you to everyone? I feel like that for this thread.

This whole time a lot of people in this thread defended Quest Rogues and questioned the competency of players like me who complained about it being OP. Saying bullshit like Quest Rogue relied on drawing and they were weak to aggro and other stupid shit like that. No, they were OP. It's that simple. And finally Blizzard has agreed enough to do some balancing.

[Deleted]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

TAKE THAT. To the fucking Quest Rogues and the fucking people on this forum who said they were balanced and fair. Nothing about Quest Rogues was fair. I faced Quest Rogue ~27% of my matchups in ranked. I'm so glad I don't have to see much more of this bullshit.

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I'm jubilant right now. You guys ever see that scene in the movie Half Baked where the guy quits Burger King, but before he does he says fuck you to everyone? I feel like that for this thread.

This whole time a lot of people in this thread defended Quest Rogues and questioned the competency of players like me who complained about it being OP. Saying bullshit like Quest Rogue relied on drawing and they were weak to aggro and other stupid shit like that. No, they were OP. It's that simple. And finally Blizzard has agreed enough to do some balancing.

You know they're mostly nerfing Quest Rogue because there's a new expansion coming and its a cheap deck that nullifies a lot of potential pack buying into that expansion? Quest Rogue win rate is not that high.

[Blueobelisk]

You know they're mostly nerfing Quest Rogue because there's a new expansion coming and its a cheap deck that nullifies a lot of potential pack buying into that expansion? Quest Rogue win rate is not that high.

Conspiracy theory. Blizzard's direct words:

Since the release of Journey to Un'Goro, Hearthstone has enjoyed a wider variety of competitively viable classes and decks than ever before. We’ve been monitoring overall gameplay, and we’ve decided that—even though everything is varied and many decks are viable—a change to The Caverns Below is still warranted.

The Caverns Below is uniquely powerful versus several slower, control-oriented decks and played often enough that it’s pushing those decks out of play. This change should help expand the deck options available to players both now and after the release of the next expansion.

Quest Rogue was strong enough that Blizzard said it single handedly killed a major archetype. If that's not overpowered I don't know what is.

[Pantalaimon]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

TAKE THAT. To the fucking Quest Rogues and the fucking people on this forum who said they were balanced and fair. Nothing about Quest Rogues was fair. I faced Quest Rogue ~27% of my matchups in ranked. I'm so glad I don't have to see much more of this bullshit.

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I'm jubilant right now. You guys ever see that scene in the movie Half Baked where the guy quits Burger King, but before he does he says fuck you to everyone? I feel like that for this thread.

This whole time a lot of people in this thread defended Quest Rogues and questioned the competency of players like me who complained about it being OP. Saying bullshit like Quest Rogue relied on drawing and they were weak to aggro and other stupid shit like that. No, they were OP. It's that simple. And finally Blizzard has agreed enough to do some balancing.

Not saying it wasn't a strong deck, but assuming that a deck or card was OP because it received a nerf is not necessarily true. Blizzard nerfed Raging Worgen Warriors because the deck was a combo deck (Blizzard hates combos that are major win conditions) and due to it seeing very occasional usage on ladder. Also, face hunter (both Undertaker & post Undertaker versions) saw well above 27% average matchups for many players when the decks were strong. *shrugs*

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Conspiracy theory. Blizzard's direct words:



Quest Rogue was strong enough that Blizzard said it single handedly killed a major archetype. If that's not overpowered I don't know what is.

Any strong fast paced aggro deck (which Quest Rogue wasn't) has the potential to kill the control archtype for one or more metas as well. Perhaps if control learned to start crafting faster & less greedy builds they would fair better against faster decks?

As far as conspiracy theory it would be very plausible to think that getting people to want to invest more money in the next expansion is indeed one of the reasons they nerfed the card (assuming there are many control oriented cards in the set). Afterall, Blizzard did implement the entire Hall of Fame concept specifically to make new 6 & 8 drops more appealing, so it isn't a far stretch to say they nerfed one legendary to make slower cards, and the packs they are pulled from, more desirable to potential buyers.

[PPN]

biggets crap deck ever. Will not cry when its gone. Nerf woulb be cool tho...

[Coombs]

Conspiracy theory. Blizzard's direct words:



Quest Rogue was strong enough that Blizzard said it single handedly killed a major archetype. If that's not overpowered I don't know what is.

You mean, like, jade druid?

[McNeil]

Quest rogue is complete bullocks. Its not a fun deck to play against because when they draw perfectly, they can easily win by turn 4 no matter what deck or plays you make. The requirements are just to low imo, so I'm not surprised to see it being nerfed to 5 minions. With the nerf I expect them to be a lot rarer or even non existant, making quest warrior the only viable quest deck left (so much for the quest mechanic...). This makes me wonder why they didn't buff the warlock quest, which imo requires way to many discards to activate. As of now the payoff is absolutely not worth it. But Blizzard has this tendency of never buffing any card, because they can just power creep them in the enxt expansion. And while I'm at it they should've also nerfed Dr. 3 (Viscious Fledgeling) and Primordial Glyph, they are far to broken for what they do.

The only viable rogue build left as I see is miracle, so I guess rogue is going to join warlock on the bench while the rest of the community plays all the other classes. Still glad to see the rogue quest being nerfed, but I wish they had some other proper builds like a possible pirate rogue.

[Pantalaimon]

I don't think the quest rogues will die out after this nerf (I somewhat expect it to be a sleeper style deck that makes a possible comeback like Aggro Shaman & Pirate Warrior after this nerfs).

However, if it does turn out that 5 minions nerf kills the deck shouldn't that be concerning that there was no more 'moderate' nerf? Either the deck is "too powerful" at 4 minions, or it immediately turns bad and disappears at 5 required minions. I really don't think the game benefits from killing old decks, as opposed to actually trying hard to appropriately balance the decks instead.

[Stormdash]

I switched to Quest Rogue a while back and it's actually pretty damn hit or miss. Yeah, strong against slow building control decks. A sitting deck against aggro builds or anything that asserts board control early and starts punching you in the face while you are ignoring everything other than trying to bounce a glacial shard or swashburglar or southsea deckhand, etc. And I've chased some bandwagon builds around, like pirate warrior, jade druid, that really aggro AF shaman a few patches back -- Cavern Rogue is the most RNG locked of all of them. I start to think of my matches like poker, like I'm looking for "outs" in my deck because if you haven't completed the quest AND played caverns by turn 5 or 6 you are in deep shit.

Don't know how much of a future it has if you are pushing most matches quest completion out to turn 7 or later, doesn't matter much to complete quest when you're down to 8 health against a mage who probably has discovered two extra ice blocks already anyway

Maybe they should just redesign a new quest for rogues, something based in combo cards played maybe, or stealth cards.

[Nikkaszal]

I don't think the quest rogues will die out after this nerf (I somewhat expect it to be a sleeper style deck that makes a possible comeback like Aggro Shaman & Pirate Warrior after this nerfs).

However, if it does turn out that 5 minions nerf kills the deck shouldn't that be concerning that there was no more 'moderate' nerf? Either the deck is "too powerful" at 4 minions, or it immediately turns bad and disappears at 5 required minions. I really don't think the game benefits from killing old decks, as opposed to actually trying hard to appropriately balance the decks instead.

It's not "too powerful" at present - stats show it as mid-tier at best - but it is wildly unfun to play against (and as also stated in the blue post, was invalidating a lot of slower decks that just flat-out lose to it)

[Pantalaimon]

It's not "too powerful" at present - stats show it as mid-tier at best - but it is wildly unfun to play against (and as also stated in the blue post, was invalidating a lot of slower decks that just flat-out lose to it)

Eh, I guess I just don't dig the idea of changing the strength of a deck because of fun being a factor, since fun is highly subjective. I find priest card copying mechanics unfun due to the sheer amount of them that get put into one deck and/or copied by other card effects, but that isn't being nerfed.

I get the reason for the nerf due to the effect it has on slow decks, but then the obvious question stands; "When is it okay for a deck type to punish slow decks?"

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

How could they not see this coming though?
They are either absolutely clueless, or they know what they're doing and just want to make very temporary decks so people spend more.

[Pantalaimon]

How could they not see this coming though?
They are either absolutely clueless, or they know what they're doing and just want to make very temporary decks so people spend more.

This is one of the few things about HS that does bother me. Clearly Blizzard doesn't do nearly as much testing in real games, using cards and decks that will be released (or they fail horribly at anticipating decks that will be thought up) because they make cards that most of the time is picked up clearly by normal players, and then they nerf it. Just stop making cards the way that you do Blizzard if you don't want to have to keep nerfing stuff as frequently as you do.

[Nikkaszal]

This is one of the few things about HS that does bother me. Clearly Blizzard doesn't do nearly as much testing in real games, using cards and decks that will be released (or they fail horribly at anticipating decks that will be thought up) because they make cards that most of the time is picked up clearly by normal players, and then they nerf it. Just stop making cards the way that you do Blizzard if you don't want to have to keep nerfing stuff as frequently as you do.

It's hard to test against players' creativity

Grim Patron was a huge curveball that came some time into BRM when some bright spark realised the interaction potential. Kun'thun Druid took time to materialise - right up until Aviana was almost due to rotate out.

It was the same with The Caverns Below. It was initially derided as another "junk" quest, until Dog made the first iteration of Quest Rogue at Ungoro's release. Even then it was kinda iffy, and it took a little more time for people to realise that Elementals, Bilefins and Vanish worked much, much better than Moroes, Violet Teachers and VC.

No-one expected Quest Rogue, right up until the current version came out some weeks after the expac launched.

[Pantalaimon]

It's hard to test against players' creativity

Grim Patron was a huge curveball that came some time into BRM when some bright spark realised the interaction potential. Kun'thun Druid took time to materialise - right up until Aviana was almost due to rotate out.

It was the same with The Caverns Below. It was initially derided as another "junk" quest, until Dog made the first iteration of Quest Rogue at Ungoro's release. Even then it was kinda iffy, and it took a little more time for people to realise that Elementals, Bilefins and Vanish worked much, much better than Moroes, Violet Teachers and VC.

No-one expected Quest Rogue, right up until the current version came out some weeks after the expac launched.

Some of those decks I can understand a little bit more about why it would be harder to predict them, especially any combo wombo decks since initially those deck the most ingenuity to first bring into the meta.

However, I don't consider The Caverns Below to be any curveball since you needed to use multiple bounce cards to even activate the quest (so this had to have been expected in the deck), as well as taking mostly one drops with some two drops that would actually cause you to win once they became 5/5's. Blizzard had to have been pretty dense if they expected players to useless one drops for rogue bounce material instead of things like chargers and card draw. I mean for crying out loud Blizzard had a previous rogue deck to use as evidence for what players often fall back on (IE a particular rogue wombo combo 4 attack shadowstep charger from the past says hi).

If Blizzard had honestly expected players to use any other minions other than those that were put into Quest Rogue then I have to really call into question Blizzard's critical thinking and foresight skills.

[purebalance]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hear...ic/20757246514

The card is nerfed to 5 minions in a future update, making it completely useless. Get your 1600 dust when that happens

How is that even remotely useless? 5 isn't that much harder than 4. Hell half the time left over bounce cards are just used to finish the game sooner by bouncing a patches or deckhand etc so you can attack again. Nerf won't do crap.

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This is one of the few things about HS that does bother me. Clearly Blizzard doesn't do nearly as much testing in real games, using cards and decks that will be released (or they fail horribly at anticipating decks that will be thought up) because they make cards that most of the time is picked up clearly by normal players, and then they nerf it. Just stop making cards the way that you do Blizzard if you don't want to have to keep nerfing stuff as frequently as you do.

I mean the game has literally maybe 5% skill involved to begin with. I wouldn't be too invested in that. There are people at legend rank that make mistakes that I never in 100 years would make.

[Nikkaszal]

Some of those decks I can understand a little bit more about why it would be harder to predict them, especially any combo wombo decks since initially those deck the most ingenuity to first bring into the meta.

However, I don't consider The Caverns Below to be any curveball since you needed to use multiple bounce cards to even activate the quest (so this had to have been expected in the deck), as well as taking mostly one drops with some two drops that would actually cause you to win once they became 5/5's. Blizzard had to have been pretty dense if they expected players to useless one drops for rogue bounce material instead of things like chargers and card draw. I mean for crying out loud Blizzard had a previous rogue deck to use as evidence for what players often fall back on (IE a particular rogue wombo combo 4 attack shadowstep charger from the past says hi).

If Blizzard had honestly expected players to use any other minions other than those that were put into Quest Rogue then I have to really call into question Blizzard's critical thinking and foresight skills.

And as mentioned, the first iteration of Quest Rogue took everyone by surprise at Ungoro launch, because the community saw the quest as non-threatening. It was Dog's initial list that made people go "ohhhh yeah, that's a thing". I mean, Stonetusk Boars? Who has even looked at that card in years?

Even then, it was average at best and took extra time for people to work out that Flame Flies and Igneous Elementals should operate as the core of the deck. It's these two cards alone which make Quest Rogue oppressive, because they increase the possibility of early quest completion remarkably. The first version relied SOLELY on drawing doubles of your cards, or ALL your bounce, early on.

Team Five is run by a small handful of people. Do you expect the development team, on their own, to postulate every single deck combo that could possibly happen? Because that's crazy. It's the players - millions of them - which work out the combos over time.