Thread: Rogue quest OP?

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  1. #161
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    @icedwarrior showed me this link which seems to be where that guy got his chart.

    http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-d...per-report-44/

    The link includes actual analysis of what the chart means.
    That's an amazing writeup
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  2. #162
    "As for Deathrattle Priest, which is focused on the quest; it’s nearly gone from higher levels of play, and we’re seeing a very small amount of N’Zoth focused Priest that don’t even run the quest. We’ll have to wait and see how good these decks can be."

    Called it!

  3. #163
    Stonetusk Boar is too OP. It needs a nerf. I honestly probably have like a 90% losing rate any time I play an opponent who uses that card.
    I'm one of those people with their PC specs listed in their signature now. Aryan PC Master Race.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Mmm it's hard to rank decks as an absolute. Example: Pirate Warrior is listed at the top, but it gets slaughtered by both Taunt Warrior and Silence Priest, both of which are "ranked" further down. Both of these also are generally unfavoured against Control Paladin, which is further down still.
    Well yes, the rankings aren't anime power levels or something, a higher ranked deck can still have a bad matchup.

  5. #165
    At higher levels those who pilot the quest do it well, and it can be devastating with glacial shards and vanish. Some decks the quest will beat completely 90% of the time. It's not so much that the rogue quest is OP but that it isn't fun. It polarizes the meta and no one should face a deck where they know they are going to lose no matter what they do.

    Not OP, but bad for the game.

  6. #166
    Nah game is the best its been for a while. There is more variety then last two xp at legend. By far my favorite deck now is Miracle priest, because the deck is so open ended and theres so many way to win the game if you look at what you are doing. Also the deck is so open you can really change things around to what you want, ive tried it with elemental, no elemental, taunts, priest of the feast, bunch of silence, all worked in different way. Only the core cards are needed. Shadow Visions 5 star card lol. Early game can just crush if you get a radiant and cleric early with a powerworld shield or divine spirit, hunters and pirate warriors just cant deal with it. Face a late game deck, np run elize, shadow vision a pack if you cant OTK them lol.

    Anyway its not like before where warrior and shaman made up 60% of the ladder. We arent close to that anymore.

    Warrior has Pirate and taunt.

    Rogue has quest and miracle.

    Paladin has mid range, mid range murlock and control.

    Priest has control and miracle.

    Hunter has mid range.

    Mage has secret mage and freeze mage. There is still a few quest mages, but again the quest is too slow and too random to work often. Things like exodia are just too easy for some deck to fuck up their only win condition.

    Shaman are on the weaker side of the still decent decks. Elemental works fine. Murloc is kinda shitty, paladin murloc is just stronger in everyway better early game, better late game legendary in the paladin class.

    Druid has token druid, its ok at best, its like a very bad hunter or pirate warrior. You need a perfect hand or you never win and even when you do, you always run the risk of running out of shit too early.

    Warlock is the same as druid honestly, just bad. Zoo is just non threatening to most decent to amazing decks. Like if you are a zoo lock and queue into quest warrior, priate, miracle priest, murloc paladin, you lose the board so fast and you just dont have anything to ever recover.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    At higher levels those who pilot the quest do it well, and it can be devastating with glacial shards and vanish. Some decks the quest will beat completely 90% of the time. It's not so much that the rogue quest is OP but that it isn't fun. It polarizes the meta and no one should face a deck where they know they are going to lose no matter what they do.

    Not OP, but bad for the game.
    That's what everyone always says about every OP deck. That excuse doesn't fit here. The Rogue deck is overpowered. It works extremely quickly, it's very hard to counter (I don't have dirty rat so Nikk is going to have to show me a video or a gif of dirty rat actually helping), once they get it off it's very hard to beat because it turns out there are a lot of 1 mana chargers. And the worst part of all is their removal early game is ridiculous. Sap is the most infuriating card in the game right now. It's hard to build tempo or do anything with sap + eviserate + other bullshit Rogues can do early game.
    I'm one of those people with their PC specs listed in their signature now. Aryan PC Master Race.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    That's what everyone always says about every OP deck. That excuse doesn't fit here. The Rogue deck is overpowered. It works extremely quickly, it's very hard to counter (I don't have dirty rat so Nikk is going to have to show me a video or a gif of dirty rat actually helping), once they get it off it's very hard to beat because it turns out there are a lot of 1 mana chargers. And the worst part of all is their removal early game is ridiculous. Sap is the most infuriating card in the game right now. It's hard to build tempo or do anything with sap + eviserate + other bullshit Rogues can do early game.
    Dirty rat works fine in decks like taunt warrior. It can be used against other decks as well for a dirty rat + brawl turn. Quest rogue are also easy as miracle or control priest. Rogue has nothing on the board early, priest can just often put too much stuff that hits too hard very fast consistantly because of shadow visions and other priest draws. Even if you end up not killing the rogue before the quest, dragon fire potion is 5 damage, shadow vision discover more dragon fire potion in your deck. Lyra can give you even more dragon fire potion., shadow word death, pint sized positions, etc.

    You really cant go by tempostorm meta snap shot anymore. Thats all from week 1. Miracle rogue was already better then quest rogues and half the new decks people refined since the 14th arent even present. Watch for priest and paladin to go up after the 23th update, both class deals pretty well with quest rogue and warrior, and arent arent exactly free for pirates either.
    Last edited by Ouch; 2017-04-21 at 09:41 PM.

  9. #169
    Game Theory & Hearthstone (Does GWENT HAS THIS? )

    It's pretty wonkish, but cool for those interested. Also, the entire thing could be wrong if enough people start teching against the dominant deck.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Hombregato View Post
    It's pretty wonkish, but cool for those interested. Also the entire thing could be wrong if enough people start teching against the dominant deck.
    They already do, but they do it in the context of the already strong decks. Sometime teching is just not enough. I see plently of pirate eating crabs. With rise of the paladin this week i saw a bunch of deck with murloc eating crabs lol. Decks with dirty rat, that really can only use it against pirate rogue, because using it against anyone else can be instant lost.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    They already do, but they do it in the context of the already strong decks. Sometime teching is just not enough. I see plently of pirate eating crabs. With rise of the paladin this week i saw a bunch of deck with murloc eating crabs lol. Decks with dirty rat, that really can only use it against pirate rogue, because using it against anyone else can be instant lost.
    I mean the dominant deck prediction, there is no doubt that palading is a strong deck. The guy assumes that teched decks and non-teched decks are the same.

    EDIT: Yeah, but as Rogue drops in power and by consequence popularity the dirty rat tech won't be necessary. If the prediction is right and > (~37%) of the meta (especially at high ranks) I'd assume that MB (of being more effective against paladin)>MC (of including a tech card)

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    That excuse doesn't fit here. The Rogue deck is overpowered.
    But that isn't true. Every bit of data points to to it being underpowered. It has a sub 50 winrate, which means it isnt even good let alone overpowered. It might be frustrating but that is a whole different discussion. As far as sap and eviserate being too good, if rogues are using either of those pre 5 then they arent doing much more, which means you will still easily out tempo them. The people claiming it is OP are solely focusing on the times where it works perfectly, which happens so rareloy it is crazy there is this much outrage. Rogues aren't completeing the quest pre 5 that often, and the few times they do they almost always have to blow every resource they have to complete it meaning they are left with 0-2 cards and a fairly tame or nonexistant board. I like how Isaid earlier
    Quote Originally Posted by Aakarshan View Post
    This is best comparable to fighting fire with a blowtorch to your own face.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    But that isn't true. Every bit of data points to to it being underpowered. It has a sub 50 winrate, which means it isnt even good let alone overpowered. It might be frustrating but that is a whole different discussion. As far as sap and eviserate being too good, if rogues are using either of those pre 5 then they arent doing much more, which means you will still easily out tempo them. The people claiming it is OP are solely focusing on the times where it works perfectly, which happens so rareloy it is crazy there is this much outrage. Rogues aren't completeing the quest pre 5 that often, and the few times they do they almost always have to blow every resource they have to complete it meaning they are left with 0-2 cards and a fairly tame or nonexistant board. I like how Isaid earlier
    The guy mentiones something about a jade druid situation. The deck is popular despite being bad.

    And this verifies:
    http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-d...per-report-43/
    http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-d...per-report-42/

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Hombregato View Post
    I think we are in a jade druid situation. The deck is popular despite being bad.
    Was jade druid ever even this bad? I guess vs pirates it probably did terrible, but to be sub 50 vs everything is just hilarious to be called OP
    Quote Originally Posted by Aakarshan View Post
    This is best comparable to fighting fire with a blowtorch to your own face.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    Was jade druid ever even this bad? I guess vs pirates it probably did terrible, but to be sub 50 vs everything is just hilarious to be called OP
    This ^

    One of the things that contributes to the deck seeming like it is some OP deck is that you see so many posters complaining about it. It is easy to assume that if so many people complain about it then not only is the deck good, but that it is broken. This would be faulty logic though and a similar deck to compare this type of thinking to is the Raging Worgen Warrior. Did you see a lot of players complain about it (admittedly not as many as Quest Rogue, but the general idea remains) yes many did complain. However, it was far from a broken deck. You just saw lots of complaints to 'fix' the deck because those players didn't like feeling cheated from a 'deserved win' due to a combo deck that annoyed them.

    Quest rogue is in a similar situation. People don't like that it completes sooner than the other quests and that it interacts with other decks in a very similar way as true aggro decks, thus they complain about it even if it isn't actually consistent.

  16. #176
    Moderator Jester Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    Was jade druid ever even this bad? I guess vs pirates it probably did terrible, but to be sub 50 vs everything is just hilarious to be called OP
    Jade Druid at least had the ability to build up to far too strong Golems if it survived to that point, and also being able to consistently do that through Jade Idol, while also not being so restricted.

    Once Rogue plays Crystal Core, that's it basically. They're stuck in a stagnant spot that if they don't win right there, it's over for them late game because they can't keep up.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    Rogues aren't completeing the quest pre 5 that often, and the few times they do they almost always have to blow every resource they have to complete it meaning they are left with 0-2 cards and a fairly tame or nonexistant board. I like how Isaid earlier
    I'm doing the quest consistently with the elemental pack though. It gives several more ways to complete your quest.
    Not only that, Firefly and Igneous Elemental gives extra minions so you never run out of steam.

    Still i lose to any tempo plays and early big ass minions. But FOR SURE i'm not having any troubles completing the quest with the elemental pack.
    But right now i'm only rank 10 in standard so i still have no experience in higher levels

  18. #178
    Rank 8 - Rank 1:

    Flip a coin. Heads, you get Quest Rogue. Tails, you get Pirate Warrior.

    Throw a Beast Hunter here and there and there you go. One of the worst metas that I've ever seen. This is almost worse than the last one, but at least the meta is too fast for Jade fucking Druids. May they rest in their fucking tomb and stay there.

    Seriously. For me, no meta will ever beat League of Explorers. I got to rank 7 with a Control Paladin there, which is a thing that I've never managed to do again with a control deck (I've hit it again with Zoolock and Murlocadin, but they're both Aggro-y). And I'm a f2p player.

    It's a shame that Hearthstone is like this nowadays, and that Blizzard does nothing about it. They don't need to reprint cards, they can LITERALLY just change some of their values. It is literally a fucking String/Int, sometimes. Change the fucking variable on some fucking cards, my god. Here is an example. Hearthstone runs on Unity, which uses C#. They probably have a GameObject called Card that they can modify at any given moment. They literally have no excuses to take so much time to balance this fucking game, since the community (Reddit, and Forums) cry out just like I'm doing right now.

    I bet the card code looks like this.
    Code:
    //Card Name: The Caverns Below
    Card cavernsBelow = new SpellCard();
    
    
    int manaCost = 5;
    String cardName = "The Caverns Below";
    int questRequirement = 4; //we can change this anytime but hey fuck you
    String description = "yare yare daze";
    
    */ Code effect /* 
    ...
    They can literally change stuff like this in seconds. Could be a hotfix. Why don't they have "Hearthstone Beta"? Why don't they try new changes to cards in a different client for those who wish to test it, and give feedback?

    I'm mad at this game because I like it. There are a lot of other card games in the market which offer much more than Hearthstone (Faeria, Shadowverse, Eternal, etc), but I don't feel like learning a new game all over again, at least not now. But I'm really disapointed in you, Blizz.

  19. #179
    I thought Blizzard said that the cards were stored server side. I don't think they're built into Unity.
    I'm one of those people with their PC specs listed in their signature now. Aryan PC Master Race.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    I thought Blizzard said that the cards were stored server side. I don't think they're built into Unity.
    Indeed. The client was made in Unity, that doesn't mean that the servers and whatnot have anything to do with Unity at all.

    Besides, it's not a matter of, "You could change it so easy, lol!" but whether or not kneejerk changes to cards every time someone complains is a good idea. Quest Rogue is already weak, why nerf it?

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