Mark of Ursol gone

[dcc626]

I'm fairly surprised Guardian isn't getting more nerfs to be honest - Incredibly likely to routinely be armor capped again once in full ToS gear. Not to mention being able to Frenzied Regen FAR more often.

those were just bullet points. im fairly certain there will be more changes. other than monks and druids, they havent said anything about any of the other tanks - does this mean they will remain unchanged?

[Deleted]

Have you guys ever looked at the other tanks? Let me get warrior for example: warrior have literally zero passive magic reduction, and their only magic resist cooldown is a 5 seconds 30% magic reduction (now 50% with the new trait). The other forms of mitigation are a skill that reduces 40% dmg for 8 seconds (3 mins cooldown) and a skill that reduces 20% dmg with 1m30s cooldown. And that's all.

Druids can still easily get 30% dmg reduction with a 100% uptime, and still have a lot of selfhealing, why on earth are you complaining?

The thing is, that no one is saying that druids don't need to be nerfed. It is just silly to argue for nerfing them, because nobody is against that. I just think that there is little sense in making it so that all mitigation a tank has against one type of damage is passive, making it basically irrelevant whether or not they actually play the game on a fight like augur. Take away some of the passive mitigation and bonus stats, reduce the rate with which we acquire rage, so that the choice between IF and MoU becomes more meaningful on mixed damage fights .... something like that would make sense and address the underlying problem, that negatively impacts the druid gameplay, that they are just overall too strong.

On the other hand a warrior cannot use shieldblock on a pure magic damage fight and that devalues quite a few things in their artifact, some of their talents and their mastery, sure. But they still can use IP and it does something. This means that their play is important on a fight like that. They may or may not need more healing on such a fight after MoU gets removed, I don't know, I just know that their gameplay is vastly superior to ours in that situation.

[SupBrah]

Bears definetly needed a nerf, but complete removal of MoU? A little too harsh imo.

TBH they shoulda reworked it to be more like DK AMS. Remove rage requirement and give it a short 45 sec or so cooldown. This would prevent constant uptime while allowing bears to still have a special magic CD.

[Deliverer]

Nobody balances or cares about tank DPS

Well thats not true

[Deleted]

Bears definetly needed a nerf, but complete removal of MoU? A little too harsh imo.

I don't think it is enough of a nerf, because it doesn't address why we are too strong at all. There isn't many situations were MoU is that great outside of NH, and that raid is rather anomalous in its damage patterns. The fact that we are the best tank at dealing with constant magic damage would have been most likely irrelevant next tier while the removal makes our gameplay around occasional magic damage spikes less interesting, while still leaving us more than capable to deal with that and way too strong in physical damage situations. They could have just solved that by removing our silly "take less damage" passives, but yeah, MoU was clearly the problem.

[Deleted]

With nerfs to monk announced, even if they completely remove MoU bear will be still the best tank by far just because they have an insane and stupid baseline mitigation out of nowhere. Expecting more bear nerfs to be at other tank levels, dont care if they buff their damage since they dont excel at DPS unless you have a certain build around trash dmg (relics+legendaries). But for the sake of tank variety, nerf the fucking passives that make bear take less dmg just because reasons; makes the class OP and boring, which is indeed bad design.

[otterfluff]

It only bothers me that we're losing a button in Legion: the pruning the game.

Also for the Moonfire haters I love my laserbear so go away!

This first part is the part i care about. Im just sad we're losing another button. I'll be completely transparent in agreeing that bear is very easy to play with extreme mediocrity, functionally. Thrash and Swipe for threat (dps!), cd's for soaking damage and healing themselves. Not complicated. That said, I'm also of the mind that tanks are still first and foremost the ones who should be caring for their health and soaking mechanics, not pushing out the maximum dps. So losing that extra mitigation button in place of a two-faced buff(ehhh ish) to a dps button i rarely use in the first place as an offspec bear feels bad.

And moonfire is great. Galactic gorilla bear for the win!

[Myztikrice]

Well thats not true

Show me a Legion progression race that used a tank class because they did more DPS than another.

[Deliverer]

Show me a Legion progression race that used a tank class because they did more DPS than another.

Exorsus had a war tank for every boss up to elisande or guldan and Slootbag swapped from monk to pala on augur for more dps and extra raid cd. .

[Deleted]

Exorsus had a war tank for every boss up to elisande or guldan and Slootbag swapped from monk to pala on augur for more dps and extra raid cd. .

Was about to say that

[Polarthief]

does scintillating Moonlight not reduce magic damage?

"Moonfire reduces damage dealt to you by X%."

If it doesn't specify Physical/Magical/specific-magical school type damage, then it's all damage types. This essentially bumps us back to pre-nerfed Thick Hide (ever-so-slightly better since it's a debuff plus our innate buff so they multiply, resulting in a 10.24% damage reduction when combined).

Anyway, as someone who doesn't main Bear (but does play it quite a bit out of raiding), I'm glad with the Maul change (at least it'll be worth a damn and one-shot Fel Explosives, and the Maul trait isn't 100% worthless now), though a bit annoyed we only have CDs for magical reduction while every other tank I can think of has some way to mitigate magical damage through mitigation. That said, if it's meant to be a weakness of bears then so be it, as long as we can continue to take mechanics like Bonds on Gul'dan.

[Deleted]

"Moonfire reduces damage dealt to you by X%."
If it doesn't specify Physical/Magical/specific-magical school type damage, then it's all damage types. This essentially bumps us back to pre-nerfed Thick Hide (ever-so-slightly better since it's a debuff plus our innate buff so they multiply, resulting in a 10.24% damage reduction when combined).

Not sure how you did that math. When I multiply 0.94*0.96 = 0.9024 => 9.76% reduction.

[pay928]

Not sure how you did that math. When I multiply 0.94*0.96 = 0.9024 => 9.76% reduction.

1.04*1.06 =1.1024. I have no idea how it calculates (yours makes more sense since incoming damage) but that's probably how he did the math.

[Deleted]

That would produce that number, but usually isn't how defensives work. If it was bears could use a few CDs to just get more than 100% reduction.

[pay928]

That would produce that number, but usually isn't how defensives work. If it was bears could use a few CDs to just get more than 100% reduction.

Agreed, I think they used the offensive instead of defensive spell multiplier math. If it's a debuff on the enemy and they do 100 magic damage normally they would do 96. Then, when taking the damage instead of taking 96 damage you would take 94% of that. This results in the 90.24 that you stated.

[Tehr]

Show me a Legion progression race that used a tank class because they did more DPS than another.

Tank damage is not the be-all-end-all of tank viability, but it is certainly very important. In a race where every player uses Augment Runes for every pull, and every player is expected to have a full 54/54 weapon to ensure they have every possible advantage, tank damage is not even close to being trivial.

Certainly nobody would argue that a tank's capability of trivializing mechanics is the most important thing (as we can see by the fact that Monks and Druids were considered the strongest tanks all throughout Nighthold) that they can bring as a class. The ideal encounter would be to have every healer at 0 mana and both tanks dead a second before the boss falls over, because then you used literally everything available to you to your advantage; obviously that's not realistic, but the fact remains that if you can survive without causing DPS to die because the healers were too busy keeping your ass alive, then your next biggest priority is to do as much damage as possible so that the boss dies (or you push a certain phase) that much sooner.