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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    You came to that thread to tell us all that we were wrong for preferring ranged Survival.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44782166

    As did you, @Eapoe

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44641821

    Why should you be afforded a level of respect that you are not willing to hold for us in return?

    And yes, I will stop posting in this thread, but I had to leave with this point: this is yet another example of Survival hunters in Legion expecting (and receiving) preferential treatment. From the initial changing of the spec from ranged to melee at the expense of long-time hunters who preferred it to be ranged, to the constant demand for further buffs and developer attention despite now performing better than the other two specs and having received the lion's share of Legion's new Hunter mechanics.
    Too bad they are not about the same thing. One thread is basically "Do you want old SV back?" , this thread is "Lets talk about how to play SV in 7.2".

    You being offtopic everywhere doesn't help your agenda.
    You derailed this thread with the very first post, gj.

    And you are actually wrong (once more) too. I didn't say anything about you being wrong for perferring ranged Survival. That's just you being a maniac. And who is that "us" you are talking about - that post of mine was clearly aimed at you, not at the "ranged survival hunter community" or whatever you think it was aimed at. It's not even about SV being melee, so wth?

    So, be less of an annoyance and just disappear or something, I don't know.
    Last edited by KrayZee; 2017-04-09 at 03:41 PM.

  2. #22
    I have KJBW, call of the wild bracers and buchers bone apron, Do I always keep bracers on and swap other two? Or do I take of bracers for dungeons?
    Come forth coward and answer for your crimes!!

  3. #23
    Hello fellow SVs,

    Came back from a long hiatus and decided to reroll as an SV and i've been having a blast harpooning all over.

    Recently i just hit 110 and was wondering if there were any Trinket recommendations out there? I know one of the better one is bloodthirsty instinct from EN but am not sure if there are any others that are on top of the list worth looking out for in dungeons or other raids?

  4. #24
    Cof is a good one to have, since it will pretty much make you aspect of the eagle line up with your fury of the eagle. Other then that, agl trinkets are good. I know the mythic bloodthirsty is on top.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathromance View Post
    Cof is a good one to have, since it will pretty much make you aspect of the eagle line up with your fury of the eagle. Other then that, agl trinkets are good. I know the mythic bloodthirsty is on top.
    That does seem pretty interesting, thanks! will keep a lookout for it but still have quite a long way to go. Any other more accessible ones from dungeons that i should keep a lookout for in the meantime?

  6. #26
    so thought about our tier 20 if the 4pc makes us consume 3s of lacerate to apply damage so does that cause our mortal wounds talent to check 3 times to proc if it does mortal wounds is going to be so good.

  7. #27
    SV is pretty fine now (myth plus more than raids)

    I don't get this fuzz about old sv

  8. #28
    Tbh SV is pretty neat and fun doing WQ or daily HC and maybe low myth+

    Raid...well beside going ham @ scorpyron...

  9. #29
    Raiding we are right on part with the other hunter specs. Most of the time I end up doing more dps the bm and mm hunters. Also the new tier is going to make the rotation different.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by noobstylez View Post
    Hello fellow SVs,

    Came back from a long hiatus and decided to reroll as an SV and i've been having a blast harpooning all over.

    Recently i just hit 110 and was wondering if there were any Trinket recommendations out there? I know one of the better one is bloodthirsty instinct from EN but am not sure if there are any others that are on top of the list worth looking out for in dungeons or other raids?
    Other than Bloodthirsty and convergence, try to get a haste statstick from guarm, that is the second strongest after bloodthirsty. Also if you don't have one of these the elemental foci from spellblade makes up for a decent replacement. The other trinkets from nighthold are only good if they titanforge to a high itemlevel. For example 2 weeks ago I got a 910 trinket from trilliax, and yesterday I got a 895 haste trinket for guarm, and it is better than the 910 arcanogolem digit. I don't know about the botanist trinket but I think it's only worth it for dual wielders. Oh and never ever use the trinket from guldan!! It blows for SV

  11. #31
    Keyboard Turner Trashbag's Avatar
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    Hello guys,

    I'm soon going into Gul'dan mythic and i'm going to play it as survival, so i'm curious as to what % ~ the stats should be at or what would be most optimal for example like 30% crit and so on. Hope any of you can help me

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlord Fordragon View Post
    I have KJBW, call of the wild bracers and buchers bone apron, Do I always keep bracers on and swap other two? Or do I take of bracers for dungeons?
    Don't think u should swap the bracers ever..more AotE is always good! And Apron for dungeons of course.

  13. #33
    This is a great resource for Survival. (Tip: Use tabs along the top)

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...PsBX6U/pubhtml

    Unfortunately with AP farming being a thing again, I haven't really had any time to play Survival. When I start to hit the AP wall on BM I'll go back and work on SV a bit, although I was hoping we'd see some blue comments on Survival ahead of 7.2.5 considering its a brand new spec and I'd like to know what Blizz think of it in terms of performance and usability.

  14. #34
    I still think SV's rotation is very odd and lacks depth.
    I like the refreshing style of the mongoose bite/flanking strike synergy but most other abilities feel somehow out of place: Lacerate is just a very plain dot, raptor strike is only a boring filler (unless Way of the Mok'Nathal is chosen but tbh I hate to use my GCDs to keep small buffs up) and carve/butchery are extremely boring and plain.

    What I would really like to see is a design much more focused around traps and poisons (as I think a SV hunter fantasy should). Here's a couple of abilities I would change/add that imo make sense for the spec, would be fun to use and bring alot more complexity:

    Explosive trap (ExT): 0s CD, low damage. Activates other traps

    AoE:
    Tar trap: Exactly the same. If ExT is used on a target afected by Tar trap, the tar will explode and set on fire. It will lose the slowing effect but will instead deal an initial burst aoe damage and then an aoe DoT.
    Caltrops: Would not replace Tar trap. Bleed damage to enemies who pass through. If ExT is used on a target affected by Caltrops the explosion will quickly disperse the caltrops dealing a high burst aoe damage to all enemies in the area.
    (Tar trap explosion for a more extended aoe fight. Caltrops explosion for a more bursty one).

    Single target:
    Ice trap: The first enemy that steps into the trap is slowed and suffers a reduced attack speed debuff. If ExT is used on a target affected by Ice trap the explosion will shatter the frozen armor and expose the enemy to the hunter's attacks (ignores x% of the targets armor).
    Poisoned bear trap: The first enemy that steps into the trap is immobilized and will suffer DoT nature damage. If ExT is used on a target immobilized by Poisoned bear trap or affected by its poison, the enemy will break free and the explosion will expose the enemy to the poison dealing damage based on missing health (execute kinda style).
    Poison dart: A single target range ability that poisons the enemy dealing nature DoT. Talents could change this ability to add complexity: Blinding dart (poison and missing effect); Harmstring dart (poison and slow); Explosive dart (aoe poison).

    Utility:
    Fetch: Order your pet to fetch you your prey. (Only usable on non-boss units).
    Being melee, disengage feels very awkward and any real hunter should have a pet to fetch his prey. A DK like grip mechanic would be fun to have and would bring utility to dungeon/raid trash pulls and an amazing ability for pvp. It would also work specially well for SV because of the need for enemies to step on traps.
    Jack in a box: If an enemy triggers this trap, a scare crow bursts out of it, fearing all enemies within 10 yds, in place for 2s.

    I don't know about you but I would really like to play a hunter with a gameplay like this.

  15. #35
    While mechanically some of these ideas are cool, I really think traps should be reduced to utility or pre-combat effects instead of rotational skills.

    Aside from the fact that throwing or placing explosives in melee range of the target is a bit odd (Danger close!) I think traps are thematically more suited to unaware enemies and not something you are using on something your actively engaged in combat with.

    Overall survival has too much going on, when most of it is inconsequential to the overall rotation. At this stage the basis of the spec is to spam mongoose and just fill in the gaps with whatever kind of dot is about to run out(serpent sting/mok'nathal/lacerate/caltrops) or is off cd(explosive trap). They should either reduce the influx of mongoose strike charges to allow for natural windows in which to refresh your dots and up their dmg so that maintaining them correctly is the proper behaviour or combine some of the dot effects and align their durations so it is easier to maintain them while dealing with the constant mongoose charges.

    Right now its a very push and pull rotation, where instinct tells you to avoid letting anything fall off while optimal performance says spam mongoose regardless and only put those dots back on when you can't spam mongoose anymore. It doesn't mesh very well and either the volume of dots and frequently of refreshing them needs to be toned down or the mongoose availability need to be reduced and the important and value of dots increased.

    No other spec has this much shit to juggle, nor does any other spec have numerous dots that are fillers you can ignore unless you have nothing else to do.
    - Spriest has 2 main dots, a filler and a CD nuke. They have enough down time in their rotation to re-apply their dots and also have a mechanic to reapply them during busier periods when they can't afford the gcds(void form)
    - Affl has 2/3 main dots, a filler and a resource based dot. They again have enough down time in their rotation to reapply dots, but also have talents to support longer duration or permanent durations and iirc an execute phase that allows auto maintenance of dots.
    - Feral despite its difficulty, has a very straightforward ability list. 2 dots, 1 filler, 1 maintenance spender(2 with bite) and it flows quite well by rotating the builder > spender. They also iirc have an execute phase mechanic that helps auto maintain 1 of their dots.
    - Assassination is the same as Feral, they rotate builders and spenders to maintain 2 main dots and have 1 CD based dot. Their natural rotation allows for them to keep all dots active because garrote/rupture fit in as replacements to other rotation skills.

    At no point in the above specs rotations do you get to a point where your dots are falling off and you think "oh well I have something more important to do so i'll reapply those dots later"..... is survival a dot spec or not? If we are we should be keeping dots 100% and our rotation should allow us to that naturally, if we're not we shouldn't have all these dots to juggle in the first place.

    Survival has no mechanics for maintaining dots, everything must be manually reapplied by each skill that applies it at all times. The durations vary wildly even on skills that apply 2 effects(Serpent sting/mok'nathal) so your "dot windows" don't always sync up because of durations/cooldowns and mongoose frequency is so high you have to abandon the dots quite often. The last point is my largest gripe, I don't see why they can adjust the pacing of the spec to allow for actual downtimes in mongoose spam that align with the dot durations so you know when you go from phase to phase.

    Opener - Apply all dots, mongo spam, finish with fury of eagle, refresh all dots, mongoose spam, apply all dots, mongoose spam, finish with fury of eagle, apply all dots etc. etc.

    Dots > Mongoose > Dots
    Fury of Eagle every 2nd mongoose window.

    Much more fluid and manageable imo.
    Last edited by Khrux; 2017-04-10 at 12:36 PM.

  16. #36
    I am Murloc! TheramoreIsTheBomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobstylez View Post
    Hello fellow SVs,

    Came back from a long hiatus and decided to reroll as an SV and i've been having a blast harpooning all over.

    Recently i just hit 110 and was wondering if there were any Trinket recommendations out there? I know one of the better one is bloodthirsty instinct from EN but am not sure if there are any others that are on top of the list worth looking out for in dungeons or other raids?
    CoF is definitely one of them
    "Your Destiny is Your own."

  17. #37
    Ignore FpicFail...he hates melee survival, wont acknowledge anything you say to him, and is just in general a dick.

    I understand a lot of hunters wnat old survival back, so just make it a 4th spec because there are people who enjoy and love melee survival...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post

    Survival has no mechanics for maintaining dots, everything must be manually reapplied by each skill that applies it at all times. The durations vary wildly even on skills that apply 2 effects(Serpent sting/mok'nathal) so your "dot windows" don't always sync up because of durations/cooldowns and mongoose frequency is so high you have to abandon the dots quite often. The last point is my largest gripe, I don't see why they can adjust the pacing of the spec to allow for actual downtimes in mongoose spam that align with the dot durations so you know when you go from phase to phase.

    Opener - Apply all dots, mongo spam, finish with fury of eagle, refresh all dots, mongoose spam, apply all dots, mongoose spam, finish with fury of eagle, apply all dots etc. etc.

    Dots > Mongoose > Dots
    Fury of Eagle every 2nd mongoose window.

    Much more fluid and manageable imo.
    The dot and buff uptime stuff is really annoying. And tbh. I liked it when Lacerate had a cooldown, because it was easier to "track". It doesn't help that each buff and debuff has a different amount of runtime.
    Way of the Mok'nathal is a 10s buff, Mongoose fury is 12s, which means I'll lose the buff if I don't refresh it for the last few MBs, Serpent Sting is 15 which means you are always "wasting" 5s of it on ST. etc. etc. Lacerate is 10s and then there is the trap too.
    So many GCDs, so many MB charges, so few GCDs to spare without capping on MB charges, and then there is flanking strike, which is important too.

  19. #39
    Are you in current tier set. If so, I would suggest getting rid of mok. It really hinders the spec. Ai works alot better, imo. Also if you have the boots, traps can be used as a focus gain. For more fs and ms damage. I don't really worry about lacerate, unless I have nothing else to press.

  20. #40
    I love survival to me it is a great spec. The major flaw in my opinion is the fact that you really need to know a fight well to preform on par(or a little above on certain fights) to other classes. The reason I say this is you have to prep 6 GCD's before you can really do the best damage you can. Then you have a certain window to make good things happen before you have to start all over again. It can be done but it takes knowledge of the fight and knowing when things are going to happen to be able to prep for that superuber Fury of the Eagle on Gul'Dan eyes followed by butchery's. But when you pull it off it is very rewarding and that is why I like it.

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