Ashes of Creation - new open world MMORPG

[Kyanion]

Everything gets kickstarted nowadays, so not a shock. These devs seem to listen to the community though, so you never know, they might take player ideas into the kickstarter.
Would have to see what's on the kickstarter list though.

Yeahhhhhhh many things get kickstarted but an MMO? I'm not sure too many are going to fall for that sucker trap again. The devs can 'listen' and talk a good game but what matters is what they'll actually be able to get to work in the game. All I know is they aren't getting a penny of mine. I don't do Kickstarters.

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This. Any MMO recently that's been crowdfunded has either been a disaster, is still in development or just a scam.

Yeah some of the best threads I've ever been in on this site were about scammy as fuck kickstarter MMOs. Then you have ones like Star Citizen and Crowfall and others that have been in dev hell for way too long.

[Radaney]

An MMO that has to be kickstarted. Don't hold my hopes high.

MMOs need some serious investment to survive the modern market.

Even if the kickstarter raises a couple of millions it'll hardly be enough to keep a modern MMO alive or developed properly.

[Kyanion]

I think saying the majority of art assets will be in the store is not accurate.

I just look at it as the alternative being f2p or b2p. Both of these payment models pretty much necessitate a pay2win cash shop that a sub allows devs to avoid. Instead they can concentrate on making a challenging, fun, immersive mmo. Not trying to 'persuade' players to partake in the cash shop. But if you want those extra cosmetics and have some money, I don't have a problem with extra money pumped into the game to make it even better.

But if you have concerns, I'd suggest getting involved in the forums. You can use the link in my signature (and gain my appreciation . Also, the discord is very active and has a ton of useful information. Channels with ask/answers, pinned messages with a lot of info. Steven is there talking and answering from time to time as well.

Do you work for the devs of this game? This is sounding awfully like Trials of Ascension levels of posting from you. Also the chances of most of us getting involved outside of talking about the game in this forum is like slim to none.

[Eleccybubb]

Steven Sharif, the Creative Director, has stated that Ashes is already fully funded. The kickstarter is for additional features they'd like to add, and perhaps cut development time. It's an addition, not the majority of funding.

The cash shop is 100% cosmetic. Steven has stated this many times. Thankfully they can go this route since there's a subscription cost. One of the many benefits of a sub system.

Uhm I'm sorry but that's even worse. They want money for a game they can already develop? LOL.

Uhm no. If they can fully develop the game right now with all 64 classes and features they want then they should not be begging for more money. They should develop the game and launch it with the model they want and use the revenue stream post launch to get money in.

[Kyanion]

Uhm I'm sorry but that's even worse. They want money for a game they can already develop? LOL.

Uhm no. If they can fully develop the game right now with all 64 classes and features they want then they should not be begging for more money. They should develop the game and launch it with the model they want and use the revenue stream post launch to get money in.

Yeah no kidding. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that "fully funded" part. The fuck they need to go on KS for?

[Coffeh]

Uhm I'm sorry but that's even worse. They want money for a game they can already develop? LOL.

Uhm no. If they can fully develop the game right now with all 64 classes and features they want then they should not be begging for more money. They should develop the game and launch it with the model they want and use the revenue stream post launch to get money in.

Well there's always features beyond the core design that developers would want to implement. I see it as a good thing they allow players to get involved and help fuel that process. No one is forcing anyone to contribute, and the risk of failure to deliver is rather low compared to other games (especially mmos) who have used kickstarter, since this funding is more an augmentation than a reliance.

Same with the referral program. They're getting players involved and rewarding those who help fund additional development, or simply spreading the word. Which is what I'm doing. No, I don't work for Intrepid. I'm just trying to get people interested in what I think is a game with a great future ahead of it. Concern and skepticism is a good thing, so I know where you're coming from. I'm obviously not going to criticize people for having doubts. They're well earned in this genre. I can again only suggest getting involved in the forums and discord, expressing your concerns, and give the community and devs a chance to address them.

[Eleccybubb]

Well there's always features beyond the core design that developers would want to implement. I see it as a good thing they allow players to get involved and help fuel that process. No one is forcing anyone to contribute, and the risk of failure to deliver is rather low compared to other games (especially mmos) who have used kickstarter, since this funding is more an augmentation than a reliance.

Same with the referral program. They're getting players involved and rewarding those who help fund additional development, or simply spreading the word. Which is what I'm doing. No, I don't work for Intrepid. I'm just trying to get people interested in what I think is a game with a great future ahead of it. Concern and skepticism is a good thing, so I know where you're coming from. I'm obviously not going to criticize people for having doubts. They're well earned in this genre. I can again only suggest getting involved in the forums and discord, expressing your concerns, and give the community and devs a chance to address them.

And again no. They have the money ready to fully develop it. This is begging plain and simple. Just stop. I don't care how well earned they are in this genre. Begging is begging.

Also you are not spreading the word at all. You are defending a game that hasn't even been released and already has suspicions from the fact they are already funded and trying to get more out of people through kickstarter among other things such as "64 classes" which has been done in the past and failed in nearly every game. Hell only game I know of where a mass archetype system has worked is Rift. I've seen this kind of attitude when it comes to defending games before and it's silly at best.

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An MMO that has to be kickstarted. Don't hold my hopes high.

MMOs need some serious investment to survive the modern market.

Even if the kickstarter raises a couple of millions it'll hardly be enough to keep a modern MMO alive or developed properly.

It doesn't HAVE to be kickstated is the fucking amazing thing. It's already got funding to be fully developed. This is just begging from them at this point.

[Kyanion]

Well there's always features beyond the core design that developers would want to implement. I see it as a good thing they allow players to get involved and help fuel that process.

Yeah no. Going to Kickstarter should be a major red flag and a negative. You aren't letting players 'get involved'. You are just collecting extra money and handing out some 'perks'.

[Thelxi]

I'm not impressed tbh.

[Ealyssa]

Money grab scheme

Allready funded
Still launching a kickstarter
sub based model
with a cash shop

Holy shit what a nice recipe for failure. Yet another MMO that gonna die fast if it even release one day (won't hold my breath on an actual real release, smells like beta hell and death TBH)

Can't wait them to sell .jpg of mounts for a few hundred bucks

[Keltas]

I think saying the majority of art assets will be in the store is not accurate.

I just look at it as the alternative being f2p or b2p. Both of these payment models pretty much necessitate a pay2win cash shop that a sub allows devs to avoid. Instead they can concentrate on making a challenging, fun, immersive mmo. Not trying to 'persuade' players to partake in the cash shop. But if you want those extra cosmetics and have some money, I don't have a problem with extra money pumped into the game to make it even better.

But if you have concerns, I'd suggest getting involved in the forums. You can use the link in my signature (and gain my appreciation . Also, the discord is very active and has a ton of useful information. Channels with ask/answers, pinned messages with a lot of info. Steven is there talking and answering from time to time as well.

https://discord.gg/kdzCD68

Yeah, cash shop money barely gets reinvested into a game. Ex: Runescape survived fine without one for 10 years, suddenly gets bought out and "we can't fund the game anymore unless we get big $$$ from cash shop" despite the head dev leaving and calling them out on that shit.

I'm already paying a sub, I shouldn't have to pay again to get something. It's not about not having money to buy it or anything either, it's the principle that you can't take two separate business models and try to force them down peoples' throats. WoW tried it once with the helmets and look what shit storm that started.

Please don't kid yourself about them only putting an occasional outfit in the store. FFXIV is the only game where I haven't seen the cash shop full of all the better outfits, and that's only because the developers hate the shop (that's why its hidden on the site and not advertised whatsoever in game) and it only exists because SE are greedy scumbags.

The shop will contain any of the good looking stuff, and it'll contain a ton of them because what company head is going to say "yeah put that awesome outfit in the game for free, where it takes work to earn" instead of "we can charge all those suckers $15 to look like that, why would we let them earn it?"

It ruins the accomplishment too. Buying an outfit doesn't feel like I earned it, nor does it make me feel like I can be proud running around in it.

Sure, if they somehow deliver a game that's great, and the cash shop only has extremely limited cosmetics, is in no way in my face in the game, and is basically never updated, then sure I'll play the hell out of the game (assuming they deliver on all the talk). I'm not getting my hopes up though.

[niil945]

And again no. They have the money ready to fully develop it. This is begging plain and simple. Just stop. I don't care how well earned they are in this genre. Begging is begging.

A kickstarter campaign isn't begging for anything. You don't give away money for nothing. They'll have perks that you can probably only get through the kickstarter as well as things like access to the beta, early access play, some swag if you want t-shirts or hats, meet-ups with the developers at PR events, etc. Don't want them? Don't fund it. It's not complicated. I'm not big on kickstarters simply because if I pay for it I want it now, I don't want it a year from now but saying they're begging for money is a pretty significant display of ignorance about what kickstarter is all about.

Regarding the thread in general, it kinda sounds like a modern version of Shadowbane. It even has a similar (though more complicated from the sounds of it) class system. I'll wait and see but a lot of the concepts they've talked about thus far sound awesome. Even the gameplay footage is far better than I expected to see in a game I just found out about. Still, similar to my thoughts on Kickstarter I'll wait for release to see if the hype is worth it in the long term.

[Katchii]

I don't find anything inherently wrong with them doing a kickstarter for a little extra money to add in features they would otherwise delay or not put in because of timing and whatnot. The fact that the base game is already funded and this is in addition to that bodes well as far as this game getting off the ground.

But having a kickstarter on an already funded game doesn't feel "right," because if it was fully funded they wouldn't need a kickstarter to get the extra stuff they want in...since that stuff would already be funded. I'll wait and see what the KS page has on it, but unless they have a breakdown of exactly what's going into/ added to the game based on certain milestones it will just feel like a blatant cashgrab. It will still feel pretty cash grabby if the list they provide (if they provide one) is a bunch of really minor and/or non value added stuff.

Regardless, again, I'm reserving judgement until I see more but what I've seen of the game itself so far looks pretty amazing so I do wish them all the best.

[Kyanion]

But having a kickstarter on an already funded game doesn't feel "right," because if it was fully funded they wouldn't need a kickstarter to get the extra stuff they want in...since that stuff would already be funded.

I mean that is the point I feel people are trying to make. It just looks bad to me.

[Eleccybubb]

I mean that is the point I feel people are trying to make. It just looks bad to me.

It's a sub based game with a cash shop. They should have no issues with initial revenue stream if it can generate hype. They don't need a Kickstarter at all.

[Kyanion]

It's a sub based game with a cash shop. They should have no issues with initial revenue stream if it can generate hype. They don't need a Kickstarter at all.

Yup and once they decided to go KS I decided to not bother with this game. I think they are promising WAY too much, 64 classes like wtf? A sub based MMO in 2017 and beyond? I see problems with them delivering. A fancy looking video does not mean throw money at it. Also, didn't they claim to be getting released sometime this year or did I hear wrong? No way that happens.

[Kazgrel]

- Kickstarter
- Sub fee
- Cash shop

I've dealt with 2 games that already had 2 of those 3 (WoW and FF14). No way would I deal with all 3. All I've seen of this game is tech demos, if anything. 64 separate classes right out of the gate sounds like a pipe dream and/or a broken shitfest, balance-wise.

[Deleted]

A dev (Ashes_Steven) was answering comments on mmorpg.com (can't post links with my new account).

Seems genuine, I am very hopeful for this game. Will probably give it a backing. If this is what it takes to get a game with these elements to market, without the backing of a big publisher, then so be it.

[Kyanion]

A dev (Ashes_Steven) was answering comments on mmorpg.com (can't post links with my new account).

Seems genuine, I am very hopeful for this game. Will probably give it a backing. If this is what it takes to get a game with these elements to market, without the backing of a big publisher, then so be it.

Yeah...no. Just because someone can answer questions in a good manner does not mean it is worth tossing money at. Remember plenty of devs of games have talked about being able to do this and that and failed hard. There are already a fair number of red flags that people have been discussing in this thread. There are games in the past that didn't have the backing of a big publisher, got funded or money tossed at them and then failed to deliver what they promised.

[Katchii]

A dev (Ashes_Steven) was answering comments on mmorpg.com (can't post links with my new account).

Seems genuine, I am very hopeful for this game. Will probably give it a backing. If this is what it takes to get a game with these elements to market, without the backing of a big publisher, then so be it.

Unfortunately having good, competent, genuinely enthusiastic and optimistic devs does not automatically mean they'll be successful at delivering the game they envision and are advertising.

I'm hopeful that I'll be able to see the game and that they're actually able to deliver because if so, the game looks quite intriguing and could be pretty awesome.

However, I remain skeptical. 64 class choices will be a nightmare from a balance perspective and I already envision having at least one completely broken OP class combo with several that aren't worth the time. The node system looks awesome, but I see it going one of two ways. One: the first 5-6 nodes to be created (whatever the cap is) will be the ones that stay for eternity as people simply gravitate towards the already established areas and settle, with PvP being mostly griefing between cities players (players who have become citizens of a specific node) as sieges will be too time consuming, risky, expensive and difficult to organize, execute and follow through with. Or two: cities will fall constantly as players trade wins and sell houses to make money to expand and change the landscape, therefore making it pointless to ever really settle a metropolis. I just don't see the constant struggle going on among players that the devs seem to envision. In my experience players choose the paths of least resistance and the constant struggle to build, defend, grow and develop just doesn't fit into that.

Either way, I'm really interested in it because if they ARE able to deliver on this the system has a ton of possibilities to keep players engaged.