Is there anyone who prefers the current MM than the 6.2 MM with instant aimed shot?

[gushDH]

The 6.2 MM was so nice, it combined the ability to move with losing about 7% of damage if you move too much, with zero ramp up, very fun and simple yet with the room for improvement.

[Sundreamer]

for pve i don't mind the current MM, but for pvp it's unplayable for me because all they gotta do is r̶u̶n̶ sprint/charge/jump/port to you and just run around you while snaring/rooting/stunning you and just attack while you're flailing around like a fish on land trying to get away so you can cast an aimed shot

[samao]

input lag alone makes MM awful now

[Delaios]

It always feels great whenever Timewalking comes around and I can use the HFC set. Most fun I ever had with the class.

[globenstine]

yeah. the devs like it more than 6.2 mm. otherwise they wouldn't have fucked with it.

[TOM_RUS]

No. Current MM sucks.

[aomtte]

Played all legion as a MM hunter.
Had to respect BM because if you don't get 2 of the 4 bis leg you can't get correct damage.

That's even the shittiest hunter spec on single target.
How can a "Marksman" spec so shitty in single target ?

No mobility, no single target damage, "no fun" to play it.

Just look at statistics :
Hunter MM was the most parsed spec on Warcraftlogs during the Emerald nightmare raid (Heroic difficulty).
Hunter MM was the most parsed spec on Warcraftlogs during the Trial of Valor raid (Heroic difficulty).
Hunter MM was the second most parsed spec of the hunter on Warcraftlogs during the Nighthold raid (Heroic difficulty)(Before 7.2).
Hunter MM was the second most parsed spec of the hunter far behind BM on Warcraftlogs during the Nighthold raid (Heroic difficulty)(7.2+).

We can even expect survival to be more played than MM if nothing change on this spec ...

[aomtte]

Played all legion as a MM hunter.
Had to respect BM because if you don't get 2 of the 4 bis leg you can't get correct damage.

That's even the shittiest hunter spec on single target.
How can a "Marksman" spec so shitty in single target ?

No mobility, no single target damage, "no fun" to play it.

Just look at statistics :
Hunter MM was the most parsed spec over all classe/spec nearly twice than the second spec parsed on Warcraftlogs during the Hellfire citadel raid (Heroic difficulty).
Hunter MM was the most parsed spec over all classe/spec on Warcraftlogs during the Emerald nightmare raid (Heroic difficulty).
Hunter MM was the most parsed spec over all classe/spec on Warcraftlogs during the Trial of Valor raid (Heroic difficulty).
Hunter MM was the second most parsed spec of the hunter on Warcraftlogs during the Nighthold raid (Heroic difficulty)(Before 7.2).
Hunter MM is the second most parsed spec of the hunter far behind BM on Warcraftlogs during the Nighthold raid (Heroic difficulty)(7.2+).

We can even expect survival to be more played than MM if nothing change on this spec ...

[Bepples]

MM is such an odd case.

For most of the time since late Cata, it was a largely abandoned spec. I think it's safe to say that most hunters preferred the run-and-gun style of BM and SV to the caster-lite style of MM. So in 6.2 Blizzard fucks up majorly and essentially makes MM the only viable spec, but thankfully they stumble across a 4 set idea that actually makes people sort-of-okay with it; turning Aimed Shot into an instant cast made people actually tolerate being forced into a spec that was largely unplayed before 6.2.

The assumption was that Blizzard would capitalise on the success of this and incorporate it somehow into the 6th expansion design for MM. Yet Legion comes around and they threw it out the fucking window. They doubled down on the caster-lite design that MM held before 6.2. The result? MM's share of the class's playerbase has steadily dropped since Legion's release and actually just got surpassed by BM.

I guess they thought that MM would be successful if it had a strong theme and didn't care at all about what had made people like the spec. That's a recurring theme in Legion: the over-prioritisation of vague notions of theme, identity, and "class fantasy" over more essential qualities like basic playability and intuitive design. It especially applies to hunters; all 3 specs are suffering from Blizzard's careless Legion revamp which flat out downgraded all of them. People might disagree with this but BM is the only spec for hunters that isn't in a worse state than its WoD iteration in terms of the amount of people playing it and that's probably due to the failure of the other two specs.

[Tharkkun]

HFC lasted so long that 6.2 + 4 piece basically felt like how MM hunters were naturally played. Had the other two specs been worth a damn we wouldn't have fallen into the trap.

[Bepples]

HFC lasted so long that 6.2 + 4 piece basically felt like how MM hunters were naturally played. Had the other two specs been worth a damn we wouldn't have fallen into the trap.

It's a shame because in the same patch Protection Paladins had a wonderful set bonus where Avenger's Shield gave you an absorb effect, which added much-needed mitigation value to a spell that, if it weren't for its Holy Power generation, was more DPS-oriented. When Holy Power was removed, if they didn't change Avenger's Shield at all it would have had no mitigation value at all. So what did they do? They took that set bonus and made it baseline (or rather, an artefact trait). This made perfect sense. They took a very popular and well-designed 4-set bonus and baked it into a class which had the dual effect of adding more depth and, like I said, adding much-needed mitigation value to a spell that almost had none. No weird half-solution, compromise, or unnecessary overhaul*; just a simple and effective change that betters the class.

Protection Paladins are, in my opinion, a Legion class design success story. When I play a Protection Paladin, I really do feel that they preserved all the things that made them good in prior expansions while also adding enough new to make it feel fresh. It's exactly the route all Legion classes should have gone down because they looked to the prior successes of the spec to know where to go in the future. I'm talking about this spec because it's amazing and inexplicable how Blizzard could get it so right with tankadins and so WRONG with Hunters. They did the exact opposite with Hunters; they threw out most of the old mechanics and disregarded what made Hunters well-loved and successful in previous expansions in favour of a 'radical new direction'... only to end up with all 3 specs being more despised than ever. As it turns out, 'new' isn't always 'good' and innovation for innovation's sake leads to design failure.

*I mention these things because it seems like this is all Hunters get in Legion. Whenever Hunters don't like a mechanic Blizzard ardently defends it and comes up with a bizarre and ineffective solution that pleases nobody involved. Look at how they handled Vulnerability in 7.1.5. Look at how they are handling Dire Beast and Mantle of Command in 7.2.5. I actually think they are so unwilling to admit fault that they avoid player-suggested solutions and instead opt for convoluted nonsense so they can feel as if they didn't give in to popular demand. That's probably just me being paranoid but it certainly feels that way and it would explain some of the insane nonsense that comes out of the class design team all the time nowadays.

[last1214]

HFC lasted so long that 6.2 + 4 piece basically felt like how MM hunters were naturally played. Had the other two specs been worth a damn we wouldn't have fallen into the trap.

Where is the like button?

[Nythiz]

The 6.2 MM was so nice, it combined the ability to move with losing about 7% of damage if you move too much, with zero ramp up, very fun and simple yet with the room for improvement.

As a player that wants to have a lot of fun and be as strong as possible, I really liked the instant aimed shot as it made the spec feel fluent and mobile.

From a more objective and game balance point of view, I think the non-instant Aimed Shot is by far a better thing for the game.

If I would want anything back, it might be moving while casting rather than having instant aimed shot, even if it's at walking speed. But I think it's pretty much fine as it is. I'd rather have them tweak the vulnerable system than the aimed shot mechanic.

I can understand how for arena pvp players this system is quite bit worse. But don't forget that Aimed Shot hits a lot harder now, because of the weakness it has. You could probably have instant aimed shot back, but it would hit like a wet noodle compared to the current one.

[Slicer299]

I've always been against instant Aimed Shot because it just creates lazy and unskilled Hunters. I've been maining a Hunter since Wrath, with the exception of Highmaul and BRF during WoD where I briefly rolled a Warlock, and knowing how to shoot and scoot has always been what separated the good Hunters from the bad. Having to kite adds on fights like Heroic 25 Dreamwalker without the benefit of instant cast everything was a good skill test for Hunters.

My issue with MM this expansion has been the Vulnerable mechanic, and even then it wasn't even all that bad until they messed with Patient Sniper and Sidewinders. In typical Blizzard fashion, instead of making other talent choices a compelling option, they just made the go to talent choice a steaming pile of shit. Yes they've fixed things a bit since then, but I gave up on the spec for the rest of this expansion. Which I know sounds odd, since I just complained about instant Aimed Shot, and here I am playing BM now, but I've put in my time and know I'm good enough to play without instant cast everything that I have nothing left to prove.

I'd be perfectly fine if they put a cast time on Cobra Shot tomorrow. We have so much down time in the spec, if you don't have the shoulders, that it wouldn't have a major impact. And they can easily reduce it's cast time significantly during BW so our damage from taking KC isn't affected.

[Ozzayel]

No.

But at this point I'd be happy if they just got rid of the vulnerable shit.
No one likes it and they keep doubling down on it over and over.

The progression of the spec throughout Legion seems to be listen to community feedback and do the exact opposite so I don't see things improving until 8.0 when they decide to completely change everything into who knows what.

[Krazzorx]

If you really want that play style it should go into a different spec. A marksmanship (read sniper/longbowman) hunter using aimed (line it up slowly, not machine gun it) shots should not have nearly everything be instant cast.

[PewPewArrowz]

If you really want that play style it should go into a different spec. A marksmanship (read sniper/longbowman) hunter using aimed (line it up slowly, not machine gun it) shots should not have nearly everything be instant cast.

Nor should you be punished if you miss 1 or 2 vulnerable windows so much. Theres been at least 4 iterations since Legion MM launched and the current one (meme spec) is just retarded, whilst the actual Trick Shot spec is just incredibly punishing with minimal movement. And with the amount of random shit that can spawn at random locations on random players.

Wish they would actually revert to 7.0 MM, all they needed to do anyway was reduce marked shot damage increase aimed shot damage boom, not OP on cleave, not too strong on ST. But no, they had to do this retarded change, cause "we want players to play other talents too", meanwhile Rets literally have 0 change in talents for 9/10 fights in NH on every difficulty, Fury changes 1 talent, same with Rogues, and probably same with a lot of other classes as well.

I was actually MM troughout 7.1.5 trying desperately to avoid Meme spec, trying desperately to make Trick shot work until I finally gave in and in 7.2 I'm BM and not gonna look back, in fact I'm more likely to head to SV instead of back to MM even though I despise Legion SV.

[XDurionX]

I kept the Tier set until 110, because playing mm with low tempo was unbearable.

[Ladyoftheforest]

I like them all and make it work. No worries here ^^

[Feanoro]

A very brief history of hunter specs in PVE

Classic: MM, until late AQ and Naxx, then a hybrid MM/SV

TBC: SV to buff your raid, otherwise BM because genius designers didn't foresee what 20% haste as a talent would do.

WotLK
- 3.0: Usually MM. BM was rekt with moving Readiness too far into MM tree, thus removing back to back BW zomgburst.
- 3.1: SV to play with Explosive Shot, then MM with ArP.
- 3.2: Fuck you Tirion. ArP nerfed hard because you could reach 100% before final tier. MM stacked agi instead.
- 3.3: MM with ArP again, now that Mother says we may.

Cata:
-4.0: Moar dots with SV
-4.2: MM for Firelands
-4.3: Set bonus fixes focus, SV by far on top

MoP:
-5.0: BM because GC says it's designed to be 5% ahead
-5.1: BM
-5.2: BM
-5.3: BM
-5.4: Good God, will we ever be anything but melee AI commanders again? BM

WoD:
-6.0: MM, situational SV in Highmaul. BM for big numbers, MM for bursting important targets, SV decent overall in BRF
-6.1: Whatever takes the best selfies
-6.2: Full retard instant MM, 3 GCDs of damage in 1 GCD of time, ranged rogue

MM has usually been cast time Aimed, with other shots around them. When people were playing BM and SV, it was because they were doing the most damage. This 100% mobile mentality comes from the acid trip of MoP, but before that, none of the specs spazzed all over the place. In the truly old days, Auto Shot couldn't fire on the move, so good hunters planned movement and stutter stepped to allow them to fire.

The main problem with MM now is they weren't finished with us (or a LOT of things) at launch, and have flailed around with Vuln. Sidewinders was a last minute fix that still felt better than now, due to Marking bad luck streaks and therefore Vuln downtime. The funny part about them screwing with our talents in 7.1.5 is that we STILL don't really change talents around like the stated goal.