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  1. #21
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Thanks, i'll just shove my gold medals up blizzards ass then cause I carried those fucking wins, good lord you're daft, the system is broken. All gold/silver including obj time and 15 SR lower over it. Yea, not broken /middlefinger

    what they should have done is just taken the MMR from wow, team MMR vs. team MMR, wins gain, losses lose, based on MMR difference.
    Again, not broken. You're just ranked higher than you should be. What you're describing is exactly how the system should work. I get that it "feels bad" to lose rank, but if you're placed too highly, that's what's gonna happen.

    The system doesn't support being carried the same way the WoW system does, which is a good thing.

  2. #22
    The Patient GrillGates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I got placed at an all-time low of somewhere around 1850 this season (can't recall precisely, somewhere between 1850 and 1875). I'm currently ranked about 2350. And I'm steadily climbing; prior to last night my season high was around 2300.

    I've played just over 100 matches this season in Competitive, too, so I'm not playing a super-high amount, either.

    And that's almost entirely solo queue. I think there were a couple matches where we clicked "Stay as team" after a good match, but that's the only pre-set group play I've had in there.

    So yeah, it's absolutely possible.


    I think what people need to realize is that the ranking system is not a progression system. You aren't supposed to advance through it. You're supposed to get "stuck" at a certain rank. If you rise much above it, you'll generally face players better than you, cause your team to lose, and fall back down. And vice versa, if you dip below it. The system is meant to keep you playing with players at about the same skill level as you, not to let you advance over time, the only way you'd be consistently advancing is if you're consistently playing better than your rank.

    Here's a relatively quick exercise. Track your points won/lost per match for 10 matches or so, and look at the average for each. If you're gaining way more for wins than you're losing for losses, you should be rising in rank over time, with a 50/50 win/loss split (ignoring draws as irrelevant). If you're earning about the same for both wins and losses, you're ranked appropriately, and should stop expecting to be climbing. And should also probably stop pretending that your teammates are why you're stuck at your current rank; the results are telling you that you're not any better than they are.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you're winning more than you lose, and you're dropping in rank, it's because you're gaining way less for wins than you're losing for losses. And that's because your performance isn't par for your rank. You're over-ranked, and SHOULD be dropping to a lower position.



    Don't look at medals, at all. They only compare your performance to your teammates, not the average players for your rank, and with the high variance between heroes, they're functionally useless. It's easy to get high damage/elims with a hero like Soldier 76 or Pharah, but that doesn't mean you're automatically more of an asset to your team than the Reaper who's surgically eliminating their healers but has lower numbers because he's more carefully picking targets and taking time to flank. There's also heroes like D.va for whom it's dead simple to get top elims, because you're spraying bullets EVERYWHERE, and dealing 3 damage to a guy who dies gives you an elimination, even if your Widowmaker headshot him for the rest of his health.

    Medals have some use for seeing if someone's not performing well for that team, but they're pretty useless for figuring out how well you should be performing for your rank.
    Okay,i started at 1070 ish rating 2 days ago and im now 1.300 ish. I see now that this might not be as bad as i thought when i see other peoples stories.
    Also i didn't even know that my preformance in the game play effect the amount of points i get in the end if we win or lose. I thought i got the same amount as everyone else who was in my group? Or am i totally missunderstanding this?

    EDIT: Mostly with this post i guess i'm just so tired of the amount of people not giving a fuck in rated when i try my very best all the time. But if it is as you say,that me doing my very best STILL benefits me even if my team mates are horrible,i guess i'll just keep on grinding!

  3. #23
    A lot of excuses in this thread.

    You can climb solo if you are good.

    You can't if you are bad.

    /thread.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Again, not broken. You're just ranked higher than you should be. What you're describing is exactly how the system should work. I get that it "feels bad" to lose rank, but if you're placed too highly, that's what's gonna happen.
    No, its not right, you SHOULD NEVER END LOWER IF YOU WIN MORE THEN YOU LOSE, ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED OR SOMETHING?

    I have been stuck in silver for 3 seasons, I play a shit ton games, I have a shit ton of gold medals and a 4:1 KD ration on soldier, a "carry" hero, every win I'm top kills and usually top OBJ time, I carry the shit out of those games but no, I end up lower because the game thinks I belong there, what, cause of my QP MMR, from previous seasons? Why should my play a YEAR ago have any effect on my play now.

    Oh case in point, my alt account is in high plat almost diamond, but I don't want all my shit over there so I stopped

    The SR gain/loss in this game is fucking stupid and then they have people like you blowing smoke up their ass because its "working as intended"

    It should NEVER adjust ratings based on where it "thinks" you should be.

    I used to buy a lot of boxes, but it's clear the devs don't care, so I'll come back and play events but beyond that, nah, games dead.

  5. #25
    umm... yes..

    i made it past 4000 ... stopped there because all the anal kids wanting to group up because they want to be carried to 4500+

  6. #26
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrillGates View Post
    Okay,i started at 1070 ish rating 2 days ago and im now 1.300 ish. I see now that this might not be as bad as i thought when i see other peoples stories.
    Also i didn't even know that my preformance in the game play effect the amount of points i get in the end if we win or lose. I thought i got the same amount as everyone else who was in my group? Or am i totally missunderstanding this?
    Yeah, you're totally misunderstanding. It's entirely about personal performance. The actual metrics are kept hidden by Blizzard, to prevent people trying to "game" them, but we know the rough concepts; the system takes into account your personal performance as compared to other players at various ranks, and controls for;

    - the map, since some heroes are "better" on certain maps, so this is balanced out
    - hero choice, since each hero plays differently and comparing to other heroes doesn't really help
    - whether you're Attack or Defense at the time, since maps aren't perfectly balanced
    - whether anyone left the match, on either side, since that has a huge effect

    A good rule of thumb to determine if you're "playing well" is to look at how much time you spend "on fire". But that's a rough estimate; the actual measuring the system does is more involved. You can easily gain way more than your teammates, or lose way less, if you're playing better than they are. It's an incentive to keep playing your best even if you assume the match is going to be a loss; throwing it means your performance tanks, meaning your rank loss will be way higher than if you'd fought it every step of the way.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    No, its not right, you SHOULD NEVER END LOWER IF YOU WIN MORE THEN YOU LOSE, ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED OR SOMETHING?

    I have been stuck in silver for 3 seasons, I play a shit ton games, I have a shit ton of gold medals and a 4:1 KD ration on soldier, a "carry" hero, every win I'm top kills and usually top OBJ time, I carry the shit out of those games but no, I end up lower because the game thinks I belong there, what, cause of my QP MMR, from previous seasons? Why should my play a YEAR ago have any effect on my play now.

    Oh case in point, my alt account is in high plat almost diamond, but I don't want all my shit over there so I stopped

    The SR gain/loss in this game is fucking stupid and then they have people like you blowing smoke up their ass because its "working as intended"

    It should NEVER adjust ratings based on where it "thinks" you should be.

    I used to buy a lot of boxes, but it's clear the devs don't care, so I'll come back and play events but beyond that, nah, games dead.
    System is working fine, a child could understand how it works.

  8. #28
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    No, its not right, you SHOULD NEVER END LOWER IF YOU WIN MORE THEN YOU LOSE, ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED OR SOMETHING?
    That's exactly how a ranking system should work, if it adjusts for personal performance. The chief difference between this and WoW's system is that you can't be carried by your team; if your personal performance is terrible, you'll win very little, and lose a lot.

    The reverse is true if you're ranked too low-. My first three matches this season were two losses, followed by a win, and that win set a new season high, meaning that I won more in 1 win than I'd lost in 2 losses. Because I was performing well above my current rank. That's why, over time, I gained rank, on average.

    If the system worked like you suggest, your personal performance wouldn't matter at all, and the system would utterly fail to rank people properly according to their personal skill level, which is the entire point of the system.

    If you're playing better than your current rank, you'll gain more for wins than you lose for losses. Meaning you have a net positive gain of rank, over time. If you're playing worse than your current rank, the reverse is true, and you'll lose rank over time. Until, in either case, you reach a point where you're performing as well as everyone else at that rank, and then the values will even out and you'll tend to hover around that rank.

    If you're losing more for losses than you gain for wins, consistently, it's because you're ranked too highly. It's that simple.
    Last edited by Endus; 2017-04-09 at 08:58 PM.

  9. #29
    I'm not sure what the purpose of these threads are. Blowing off steam? Of course it's possible. Many people have done so. I know people that have repeatedly climbed hundreds of SR when playing solo. No trick existed, they were just capable of doing so.
    ----
    It reminds me of, prior to seasons, pages of "Bastion is broken, literally impossible, nobody can kill him" were being made. I feel like people too easily convince themselves that some force out of their control is responsible for how good they are at the game.
    Last edited by Dequanacus; 2017-04-09 at 08:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  10. #30
    The Patient GrillGates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, you're totally misunderstanding. It's entirely about personal performance. The actual metrics are kept hidden by Blizzard, to prevent people trying to "game" them, but we know the rough concepts; the system takes into account your personal performance as compared to other players at various ranks, and controls for;

    - the map, since some heroes are "better" on certain maps, so this is balanced out
    - hero choice, since each hero plays differently and comparing to other heroes doesn't really help
    - whether you're Attack or Defense at the time, since maps aren't perfectly balanced
    - whether anyone left the match, on either side, since that has a huge effect

    A good rule of thumb to determine if you're "playing well" is to look at how much time you spend "on fire". But that's a rough estimate; the actual measuring the system does is more involved. You can easily gain way more than your teammates, or lose way less, if you're playing better than they are. It's an incentive to keep playing your best even if you assume the match is going to be a loss; throwing it means your performance tanks, meaning your rank loss will be way higher than if you'd fought it every step of the way.
    Thanks for that info! All these hours with sweaty hands after trying to keep retarded players alive for the lord himself has not been in vain! I guess i'll just go back and keep doing my best and just truly ignore retards.

    /Cheers

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's exactly how a ranking system should work, if it adjusts for personal performance. The chief difference between this and WoW's system is that you can't be carried by your team; if your personal performance is terrible, you'll win very little, and lose a lot.

    The reverse is true if you're ranked too low-. My first three matches this season were two losses, followed by a win, and that win set a new season high, meaning that I won more in 1 win than I'd lost in 2 losses. Because I was performing well above my current rank. That's why, over time, I gained rank, on average.

    If the system worked like you suggest, your personal performance wouldn't matter at all, and the system would utterly fail to rank people properly according to their personal skill level, which is the entire point of the system.
    Good, completely disregard the REST of the post.... I'm done, you're as daft as the game itself.

  12. #32
    Over 9000! Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    No, its not right, you SHOULD NEVER END LOWER IF YOU WIN MORE THEN YOU LOSE, ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED OR SOMETHING?

    I have been stuck in silver for 3 seasons, I play a shit ton games, I have a shit ton of gold medals and a 4:1 KD ration on soldier, a "carry" hero, every win I'm top kills and usually top OBJ time, I carry the shit out of those games but no, I end up lower because the game thinks I belong there, what, cause of my QP MMR, from previous seasons? Why should my play a YEAR ago have any effect on my play now.

    Oh case in point, my alt account is in high plat almost diamond, but I don't want all my shit over there so I stopped

    The SR gain/loss in this game is fucking stupid and then they have people like you blowing smoke up their ass because its "working as intended"

    It should NEVER adjust ratings based on where it "thinks" you should be.

    I used to buy a lot of boxes, but it's clear the devs don't care, so I'll come back and play events but beyond that, nah, games dead.
    Maybe your a silver rank then? I mean it has been 4 seasons.
    "I don't want someone who has the knowledge, skill, or even personality necessary to be president. I want someone who can speak his bigoted mind without worrying about offending people!"- The batman

    Common courtesy is like common sense these days, neither of them are too common anymore.

  13. #33
    What i write here is just tips, noticing people are quite below myself in rating and this might actually help you improve. This is pretty much only aimed towards those below plat. (btw plat players, use the mic)

    Check guides on sensitivity and dpi, Overwatch is a FPS game and there is arm and wrist aiming two terms you will come across when looking for info. I play with 400 DPI and 6 in game sensitivity i also got a big ass mouse pad and I'm arm aiming. It's slow as fucking hell at first but that will change when you get used to it and it will improve your aiming.

    Overwatch University over at reddit is a great source of information and my personal favorite youtuber when it comes to couching is
    OneAmongstMany, he goes over great stuff all the time.

    I would personally recommend sticking with a role and either have a dps/support hero to fill in with if needed. I don't consider myself good at the game in any role always more stuff to learn and I'm always going up. (Beside retarded mistake don't play while tilted.) Focus on the games, your performance and don't think about your god damn SR. The lost SR can be gained back fight for it.

  14. #34
    I made it to Master both last season and this season entirely through solo queue playing nothing but Mercy, definitely possible.

  15. #35
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Good, completely disregard the REST of the post.... I'm done, you're as daft as the game itself.
    Which part, the one where you claim to have an alt account at a much higher rank that you never play any more? Lucky streaks or lucky placements could get you much higher than you deserve to be, or working with a coordinated team that's better than you, and avoiding playing it would protect that overly-high rank, but that's not supportive of your greater point. Also, when did you stop playing them? Because it was Season 2, IIRC, that they realized almost everyone was ranked too highly due to a glitch; if you abandoned your alt back then, it's not surprising it was ranked higher than your current main's rank.

    The part where you complain about your QP MMR from a year ago? The only place that has ANY effect is in your initial placement rank. It has nothing to do with your gains/losses after that, which are entirely based on that particular match's performance.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Maybe your a silver rank then? I mean it has been 4 seasons.
    My other account sure isn't, how do you explain that? I'm a silver player on one account and a high plat and climbing on another, somehow changing account names ups my skill? or lowers it?

  17. #37
    Over 9000! Packers01's Avatar
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    I am nothing special, started at like 1700 or so, currently at 2200, but I have not really played a lot, 76 games total. Of the 15 hours I have played, 13 of those are on Zen, Mercy and Ana. Don't get stuck with a main imo, if you want to heal get good at a few healers. Same with any role.
    Last edited by Packers01; 2017-04-09 at 09:06 PM.
    "I don't want someone who has the knowledge, skill, or even personality necessary to be president. I want someone who can speak his bigoted mind without worrying about offending people!"- The batman

    Common courtesy is like common sense these days, neither of them are too common anymore.

  18. #38
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    My other account sure isn't, how do you explain that? I'm a silver player on one account and a high plat and climbing on another, somehow changing account names ups my skill? or lowers it?
    You aren't giving us any useful info.

    When did you stop playing them? If it was a couple seasons ago, ranking changed.

    Did you get placed high initially and then not play a lot? That preserves a rank you didn't necessarily earn.

    Do you get angry and play badly on your main account as a result of that anger? That could also contribute.

    Fact remains; your SR gains and losses are entirely down to your personal performance in that particular match, with some minor adjustment based on team rating differences. If you're consistently losing more for losses than you gain for wins, then your personal performance is below what the system would expect of a player of your rank, playing those heroes on those maps.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which part, the one where you claim to have an alt account at a much higher rank that you never play any more? Lucky streaks or lucky placements could get you much higher than you deserve to be, or working with a coordinated team that's better than you, and avoiding playing it would protect that overly-high rank, but that's not supportive of your greater point. Also, when did you stop playing them? Because it was Season 2, IIRC, that they realized almost everyone was ranked too highly due to a glitch; if you abandoned your alt back then, it's not surprising it was ranked higher than your current main's rank.

    The part where you complain about your QP MMR from a year ago? The only place that has ANY effect is in your initial placement rank. It has nothing to do with your gains/losses after that, which are entirely based on that particular match's performance.
    Nope, that account was created this season, and honestly I think you overvalue personal performance anyway. People have basically proven it doesn't have much effect on SR, I mean, the only thing you could even track is On fire time, can't track elims cause its basically not a big deal in this game, its who you kill that matters. You could track obj time but there's plenty of heroes that value being OFF the obj. Track healing but that would mean anyone but ana/mercy if there's no ana, would suffer. There's just not a system in place to PROPERLY track personal performance that would allow it to weight everything properly.

    They can't tell the difference between a mercy that got gold healing only healing the suicidal rein over the mercy who got gold healing keeping her team balanced out so they died together and properly for a big res and team wipe.

    There's just no way to properly track it all so it weighs very little, I know a lot of people are calling to remove any of the personal performance stuff because it REALLY messes with tanks, and especially supports, doing their jobs.

    Hell, a good rien may not get ANY medals but still carry his team.

    I'm sorry for yelling before but it's just frustrating, I am higher than previous seasons but the game is now working against me.

  20. #40
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Nope, that account was created this season, and honestly I think you overvalue personal performance anyway. People have basically proven it doesn't have much effect on SR, I mean, the only thing you could even track is On fire time, can't track elims cause its basically not a big deal in this game, its who you kill that matters.
    There's literally no way people could have "proven" this, because they straight-up don't have access to the data. Only Blizzard does. Looking at single-issue factors is deliberately ignoring how the system is stated to work.

    You could track obj time but there's plenty of heroes that value being OFF the obj. Track healing but that would mean anyone but ana/mercy if there's no ana, would suffer. There's just not a system in place to PROPERLY track personal performance that would allow it to weight everything properly.
    Except that Blizzard has explicitly stated that they take each individual hero's performance into account. They don't compare a Zenyatta's average healing to a Mercy's. They compare your healing on Zenyatta to OTHER Zenyattas.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    As a minor factor, we also do evaluate how well you played the heroes you used in a match. The comparison is largely based on historical data of people playing a specific hero (not medals, not pure damage done), and we've done a lot of work to this system based on the community's feedback. In fact, I've seen some people indicate that they don't think we're doing this anymore. We still are. While it's a minor factor compared to wins/losses (The best way to increase your SR is still to play together and win as a team!), doing so does help us determine your skill more accurately and faster.
    Winning more than you lose should generally see you gain rank, but personal performance is absolutely and deliberately part of the mix. If you're averaging out at a 50/50 win ratio, personal performance WILL be the factor that determines if you're gaining or losing rank.
    Last edited by Endus; 2017-04-09 at 09:24 PM.

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