List of World's Largest Executioners that DOESN'T Adjust for Population. Fake News?

[WskyDK]

It absolutely does matter, because if you haven't notice we don't live in a world where everyone who reads an article then crunches the numbers to see what the adjusted rates of executions are based on population to see who is actually the worst offender. Fortunately the only real consequence of this is likely to be increased pressure for the US to abolish the death penalty, which isn't a bad thing. But if you're going to present one half of the story, at least present the other half.

It. Doesn't. Matter.
If I'm measuring the total number of people executed by a government, the total population is irrelevant to said information.
If America executes 25 people in a year, and Somalia executes 25, they're no different.

[Crissi]

It's the opposite of misleading. That someone might decide to not read the associated article or understand the graph and therefore draw the wrong conclusions is that person's responsibility, not the graph maker's. There is no attempt to deceive anyone or skew the impression. It's precisely what it is presented as.

It actually is up to the designer to make it as easily understandable as possible. Making it murkey or misleading or confusing generally gets rightfully shit on by credible cartogrpahers / GIS people

There are a few criticisms that can be used for this map, because it is what I would regard as an iffy map

[Deleted]

its labeled under "exact figures undetermined", which generally means the amount is kept secret by the state. Doesnt make it invalid, as they did label it correctly. I personally would have combined it with the unknown catagory but thats just my inner cartographer speaking.

Also would have combined No executions with death penalty abolished, as the result is the same

Russia and NK are dark yellow, not orange, which means they're listed as having had none.

[Felya]

I wasn't comparing murders to executions in that example. I was comparing murders to murders. China is going to have more murders than Honduras because China has way, way more people than Honduras. But you would be laughed off the stage if you were to present a map of the world where China was presented as being more dangerous than Honduras.

Just like you would be laughed off if you said statistics on how many executions happened, are flawed because they don't account for total population. In both cases, neither murder rate statistics showing how dangerous a place is nor execution statistics representing a ratio to population, are things these statistics show.

Absolutely. As far as capital punishment is concerned, the United States is far worse than any other western nation. But it's a hell of a lot better than Somalia and you wouldn't know it from that image.

That is not what that "image" is meant to show. That's your interpretation, not the assertion being made.

[Heladys]

If executions are your thing, ever concidered joining isis?

No. Executions aren't "my thing" and yet we need more of them.

[Sneezeburger]

It. Doesn't. Matter.
If I'm measuring the total number of people executed by a government, the total population is irrelevant to said information.
If America executes 25 people in a year, and Somalia executes 25, they're no different.

In 2016 American police shot and killed 574 white people and 266 black people. Whites are over half the population of the United States. Blacks are around 12% Are you going to tell me it doesn't matter that, adjusted for population, blacks are over three times more likely to be shot than whites? That it's actually white people who are being discriminated against?

[Xarkan]

Also would have combined No executions with death penalty abolished, as the result is the same

It is not the same for the message they want to give though, no executions means that there might come some again

[hrugner]

It's not a useful map, but it isn't "fake", just useless. "More than 1, exact figure unknown", Probably shouldn't be on their color scale since this value could easily span multiple shades in their key. "Death penality abolished for most crimes" also shouldn't be on the chart since we're looking at numbers of deaths not how many crimes a country has the death penalty for. They also aren't counting extra judicial state sponsored death which is a strange way of counting executions.

[Crissi]

Russia and NK are dark yellow, not orange, which means they're listed as having had none.

huh, you're right. Thanks for correcting me, and I clearly need to get my eyes checked.

Yeah, considering we KNOW NK executes people... that makes the map even worse. Or we should just start saying "execution data is exceedingly unreliable in dictatorships / authoritarianships"

[Sneezeburger]

So just to be clear, the folks who say this is fine would also be perfectly OK with a conservative organization issuing a press release of "TWICE AS MANY WHITES KILLED BY POLICE AS BLACKS," while mentioning NOTHING of their respective shares of the population?

[truckboattruck]

yes lets have ourselves a proud functional society with no barbaric death penalty...like south africa

its not like they rape babies because they think it cures aids or anything

[Vash The Stampede]

I wish we executed more.

I wish we executed none.

[WskyDK]

In 2016 American police shot and killed 574 white people and 266 black people. Whites are over half the population of the United States. Blacks are around 12% Are you going to tell me it doesn't matter that, adjusted for population, blacks are over three times more likely to be shot than whites? That it's actually white people who are being discriminated against?

That's not what's being argued in your original post.
Amnesty posted a data-set and created a map based on it.
We (that is, everyone so far in this thread) have accepted that data as correct. You're argument that Amnesty has somehow skewed this data to fit a narrative is false, because they're literally reporting the raw data. If you have some information that shows their total number of persons executed by world governments is false, then present said information, otherwise you're arguing against a data-set.

[Sneezeburger]

That's not what's being argued in your original post.
Amnesty posted a data-set and created a map based on it.
We (that is, everyone so far in this thread) have accepted that data as correct. You're argument that Amnesty has somehow skewed this data to fit a narrative is false, because they're literally reporting the raw data. If you have some information that shows their total number of persons executed by world governments is false, then present said information, otherwise you're arguing against a data-set.

So you'd be fine with the news story "TWICE AS MANY WHITES KILLED BY POLICE AS BLACKS"? Because in terms of raw data that's factually correct.

[WskyDK]

So you'd be fine with the news story "TWICE AS MANY WHITES KILLED BY POLICE AS BLACKS"? Because in terms of raw data that's factually correct.

Yes. I would be.

[Sneezeburger]

Yes. I would be.

Well, you're consistent. I'll give you that.

[Crispin]

God I'm sick of all this Fake news nonsense.

Ask yourself OP, did the article lie at any point? Then ask yourself if it's fake.

[WskyDK]

Well, you're consistent. I'll give you that.

I blame my ability to differentiate rate versus volume.

[Afrospinach]

There's an old saying that "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

They are trying to ABOLISH the death penalty world wide, not reduce the rate. Now tell me you do not see the issue here presenting a chart with places executing only even one person. What would that chart look like? What are they trying to convey with the graph?

[Jeezy911]

These so called studies do this all the time. They have an agenda even before the study begins.