List of World's Largest Executioners that DOESN'T Adjust for Population. Fake News?

[WskyDK]

These so called studies do this all the time. They have an agenda even before the study begins.

In this case, it's reporting the total number of government executions by country.

[Crissi]

North Korea's color means "More than one execution, exact figure impossible to determine." Russia is dark yellow. South Korea is the same color as Russia and provides clear contrast with North Korea.

and this is why I probably shouldnt analyze maps when Im sick as a dog

although I question Russia being under the no execution color.

[Noradin]

North Korea's color means "More than one execution, exact figure impossible to determine." Russia is dark yellow. South Korea is the same color as Russia and provides clear contrast with North Korea.

Russia is a member of the Council of Europe and should therefore be light yellow.

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and this is why I probably shouldnt analyze maps when Im sick as a dog

although I question Russia being under the no execution color.

There are no official state sancioned executions, if there were they couldn't be a member of the Council of Europe.

[Sneezeburger]

They are trying to ABOLISH the death penalty world wide, not reduce the rate. Now tell me you do not see the issue here presenting a chart with places executing only even one person. What would that chart look like? What are they trying to convey with the graph?

I have zero issue with them listing countries alphabetically and unranked or posting raw data, then right next to it a map adjusted for population. But posting one without the other is, in my view, misleading, because it implies that certain countries are equally egregious offenders when they are not. And if you're just concerned about whether there is a death penalty or not, why include figures? Why not just list countries that execute and those that don't?

Because they're trying to draw comparisons that just don't exist.

[Garnier Fructis]

They didn't try and present it as such.

Plus, the people who are against the death penalty are likely interested in both metrics.

[Sneezeburger]

They didn't try and present it as such.

Plus, the people who are against the death penalty are likely interested in both metrics.

But one statistic is basically meaningless without the other, unless you're just compiling a list of countries that have executed people and that's it. Don't try and present some comparison that doesn't exist. 1000 people executed in China is not the same as 1000 people executed in, say, the Vatican.

[Pterodactylus]

Right. And it's incredibly misleading.

Not really. It says exactly what data they are presenting. If you want per capita data - do a little math.

[WskyDK]

But one statistic is basically meaningless without the other, unless you're just compiling a list of countries that have executed people and that's it. Don't try and present some comparison that doesn't exist. 1000 people executed in China is not the same as 1000 people executed in, say, the Vatican.

Except it is.

[Sneezeburger]

Not really. It says exactly what data they are presenting. If you want per capita data - do a little math.

I'll ask of you what I asked of the above poster. If tomorrow the New York Times' headline is "POLICE KILL TWICE AS MANY WHITES AS THEY DO BLACKS," and THAT'S IT, would your response be "Well it's factually true. People just need to do a little math if they want the full picture"?

[Garnier Fructis]

But one statistic is basically meaningless without the other, unless you're just compiling a list of countries that have executed people and that's it. Don't try and present some comparison that doesn't exist. 1000 people executed in China is not the same as 1000 people executed in, say, the Vatican.

Clearly, or else we wouldn't be interested in two different metrics.

[Afrospinach]

Because they're trying to draw comparisons that just don't exist.

We are talking about amnesty international here. It is not a comparison chart it is a to do list lol.

[Sneezeburger]

It really depends on what the body of the article is. I'd generally discourage ever just reading headlines and thinking you have the story. Having said that, I'd be hard pressed to think of a sensible story to run with that headline and it immediately suggests to me the sort of tone deaf story Fox might run with as part of insisting that liberals are the real racists and racism was destroyed when Lincoln threw it into the fires of Mount Gettysburg.

Exactly. It's factually true that in America, more whites are shot than blacks, but alone it's (at best) a meaningless statistic because whites constitute a significantly larger portion of the total population. To simply state that more whites are shot than blacks is sloppy reporting at best and intentionally misleading at worst. In my view, the same thing is going on here. By simply presenting raw data without explanation, they're opening the door for people who are either lazy, uneducated, or driven by an agenda to draw conclusions about the gravity of the issue of capital punishment in certain countries that are simply unfounded.

To be clear, executing 20 people in a population of 300+ million is bad. Executing that same number of people with 1/10th as many people is far worse. And if you just read the Amnesty release without that additional data, it would not be apparent how serious the issue is in smaller countries that just aren't going to give you those eye-popping numbers like China will.

[Zylos]

I was kind of on team per capita until this statement...

Except it is.

This is an interesting stance and one I think people need to think about more.... 1000 people dead in china is the same as 1000 people dead in the Vatican.

Mathematically it checks out so long as you uphold the relationship that "people in china"=people and also "people in the Vatican"=people. Last I checked "1000 Chinese people" =/= 1000/1.3 billion (7.7x10^-7) people. So I think it's a sound argument.

Okay enough of the snark... per capita data while perhaps scientifically more interesting or useful isn't necessarily what should matter. 1000 people dead is 1000 people dead at the end of the day.

[omfgreally]

Yeah it's pretty clear from even a cursory glance that the graph didn't account for population. They weren't trying to trick you with liberal propaganda.

NAILED IT. I was thinking that to. Doesn't China shoot people in mass for things like drugs.

[Edge-]

NAILED IT. I was thinking that to. Doesn't China shoot people in mass for things like drugs.

That's the Philippines right now, I don't believe China does that (though they don't fuck around with drug crime there).

[Noradin]

Maximum edge. You have a fan club I can sign up for brah? Been playing Persona 5 have a desire to be EDGY.

And yeah, graph isn't misleading lol. People just getting upset because they like to be upset. Outrage culture.

Misleading?
Not really, everything above light yellow should be beneath any society that calls iteself "civilized".
The amount of executions is just relevant to determine how much evidence we have that they aren't.

[Deleted]

So basically you are asking for a map designed for people who can't read.

[unbound]

Right. And it's incredibly misleading. More people are going to get murdered in China than Honduras (the country with the world's highest murder rate) on any given year, but you wouldn't release a map with China being blood red with skulls all over it and have Honduras be lily white just because there were twice as many murders in China as Honduras.

No, it isn't misleading if you bother to put in any thought as to what is being presented. Someone being executed is someone being executed by the state. Why does a per capita rate matter in the least for this kind of metric?

The point isn't that there are acceptable rates for a state to execute their citizens; the point is that any execution of a citizen by the state is a very troublesome thing indeed.

If you think otherwise, well... /facepalm

[Sneezeburger]

You are making an overly dramatic mountain out of an innocuous molehill. They're not deliberately trying to lead anyone to any conclusion other than capital punishment is bad and it still happens. It's not their responsibility to build an idiot-proof graphic, argument, or whatever, nor is that possible.

This almost certainly isn't going to get anyone killed, but I still consider it to be sloppy, agenda driven reporting. A map which reflected executions per million or hundred thousand would not be hard to do at all and would, at least in my view, provide a far more complete picture of the state of capital punishment across the world today. But that map would look a lot different than the one presented on their website and would make situations in United States and (possibly) China look less serious by comparison. Heck, compared to China the US would basically be lily white. And I'm assuming is not their objective.

Again, I understand what they're trying to do, but I hate when the right does this kind of stuff and I hate it when the left does it too.

[Aggrophobic]

What? They did not fiddle with the numbers so you belive it is fake becuase of that?
Like, raw data is fake?

Did you even think this through befor you wrote it?